399 replies to this topic

[malabrat]

I can see upgrading the current freeway section (Mckenize to Royal Oak) and the section through Sidney going from 80 to 90. I see no reason at all either section should remain at 80

 

[gkz]

I think even 90 is ridiculous!

 

The freeway section of the Pat Bay is straight, flat, has completely grade separated interchanges, has long acceleration and deceleration lanes, has wide shoulders, and has a wide grass ditch median. The design speed is probably 120+. I sure hope they re-sign it to 100!

Edited by gkz, 11 July 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[Mike K.]

Latest word on the overpass is soil conditions are very soft and will make construction expensive/difficult.

[splashflash]

Are you referring to the potential Beacon Avenue interchange in Sidney?

[Mike K.]

Yes, that one. Apparently ICBC and the airport have allocated $5 million to the project already. That should pay for the pedestrian overpass portion.

[splashflash]

Report. http://www.th.gov.bc...nning_Study.pdf

Edited by splashflash, 03 February 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[gkz]

Discussion on SkyscraperPage: http://forum.skyscra...=187593&page=21

 

Pictures of the proposed interchanges:

 

Haliburton / Claremont

Concept 1

 

Concept 2

 

Sayward

 

Concept 1 of having Keating flyovers with an Island View Interchange

 

Concept 2 with a Keating Interchange only

 

Concept 3 with an Island View Interchange only.

 

Tsawout Interchange - on First Nations reserve (potential)

 

Mt Newton Interchange Concept 1 using a diamond interchange.

 

Mt. Newton Interchange Concept 2 with Loops

 

Beacon Ave interchange

[Bingo]

Dream on....

[gkz]

Those images come from the report published by the BC Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure. Many of these concepts have positive net present value, and are possible.

 

http://www.th.gov.bc...nning_Study.pdf

 

 

Edited by gkz, 22 February 2015 - 10:00 PM.

[Coreyburger]

Uhh, I would be careful with those Net Positive Value, as it isn't a full cost accounting including minor issues such as increased run-off from increased roadway, loss of agricultural land, etc. I would also seriously question the "Travel Time Saving", as a lot of that is based on some seriously-flawed transportation models.

[Bingo]

Those images come from the report published by the BC Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure. Many of these concepts have positive net present value, and are possible.

 

http://www.th.gov.bc...nning_Study.pdf

 

If you were to take the least expensive concept at the 5 different locations, the capital costs are over 131 million dollars. I can't see these projects necessary to serve a relatively small population on the peninsula. The savings  in travel time for vehicles hurrying to catch a ferry or a flight would be negligible, as would time saved by commuters on a daily basis who would not all be travelling the total length of the Pat Bay Highway.

 

If the Ministry of Transport has a desire for spending on local highway improvements the money would be better spent on the Trans Canada, or on making use of the E&N corridor between Victoria and Langford.

[lanforod]

I'm for some of these, so long as they first fix McKenzie and Tillicum crossings with Hwy 1... and I live in Royal Oak, so fixing these would be great from my persepective, but they need to prioritize.

 

1 Mckenzie (along with an HOV lane)

2 Tillicum

3 Beacon

I don't know how to prioritize the rest. Probably Mt. Newton or Sayward next.

[LocalMom]

Don't forget the new (!) light at the Westshore Parkway... Just reminding everyone they ain't quite out of the CRD, so here's another traffic light on the highway for good measure.

[Mike K.]

Highway 17 will one day serve as the primary highway into the region from both the ferries and up Island. Building a secondary route to the west shore will cost just as much as a crossing between Cowichan and the peninsula and all of those interchanges along the 17. Moving Malahat traffic onto the 17 will give highway 1 many decades of sufficient capacity.

[Schnook]

Hi All,

 

After long absence, I just stumbled across this thread and find the discussion very interesting.  My humble fifty cents:

 

@ Mike K - Do you mean to suggest the possibility of a bridge going northwest from Swartz Bay?  I would have very low expectations for that EVER happening. North Saanichtonites take their rural character seriously.  If there's one thing that would bring them out with torches and pitchforks, that's probably it.  

 

Most of the concepts in the new March 2015 study seem overcomplicated and highly unlikely in the current environment.  The proposed Sidney interchange stands out as having particularly ominous potential to transform Sidney's straightforward entrance into an albatross that most drivers will avoid, worse even than the McTavish crop circles.  Anyway, Sidney doesn't seem to be including it in their planning: 

 

Sidney Proposes Employee Parking Lot (Peninsula News Review, 27-Mar) 

 

The focus on Island View Road is a mystery to me, as the connector off Pat Way to Saanich Road and up the hill to Central Saanich Road involves sharp corners and steep grades that make it unsuitable for anything but residential traffic, especially since the goal should be to reduce commercial vehicles in front of Keating School, not to increase it.  Most commercial traffic off Island View Road is bound for Keating or Brentwood Bay (directly to west of the Keating Business Park), and some kind of improvement to highway access on Keating has been anticipated by locals for literally decades.  Focus on that seems more practical and intuitive.  If economic development of the Keating Business Park is a priority for current Central Saanich Mayor and Council, then NPV is not an adequate measure for the synergies that would result from improved access.  Reason for particular interest in spending a pile of money at Mt. Newton is likewise unclear.

 

I hear that Jesken Town Centre (p. 8) is dead in the water, and good riddance to it.  Canadian consumer debt-to-income stands at 164%, and local retail is already struggling. The last thing we need is another little business centre that fragments and saturates markets further.  Priority should be to support existing businesses, not to stretch them thinner. Witness the rise across Eastern Canada and the United States of the so-called "Ghost Mall" phenomenon.  If Superstore opens a new location on the highway as some have hinted elsewhere, one expects that it could be expected to go the way of Target and certain other major department stores in the near future. Furthermore, the convoluted proposal for highway access to Jesken would add more unnecessary complexity to that stretch of roadway.

 

Thanks to whomever spotted the traffic study first.  It's gratifying to see local problems receive much-needed attention. 

 

Will anything actually get built?

Edited by Schnook, 27 March 2015 - 11:53 PM.

[Mike K.]

 

@ Mike K - Do you mean to suggest the possibility of a bridge going northwest from Swartz Bay?  I would have very low expectations for that EVER happening. North Saanichtonites take their rural character seriously.  If there's one thing that would bring them out with torches and pitchforks, that's probably it.  

 

...

 

I hear that Jesken Town Centre (p. 8) is dead in the water, and good riddance to it.  Canadian consumer debt-to-income stands at 164%, and local retail is already struggling. The last thing we need is another little business centre that fragments and saturates markets further.  Priority should be to support existing businesses, not to stretch them thinner. Witness the rise across Eastern Canada and the United States of the so-called "Ghost Mall" phenomenon.  If Superstore opens a new location on the highway as some have hinted elsewhere, one expects that it could be expected to go the way of Target and certain other major department stores in the near future. Furthermore, the convoluted proposal for highway access to Jesken would add more unnecessary complexity to that stretch of roadway.

 

The bridge was a concept the Ministry of Transportation floated about a decade ago. There's merit to that idea, but no doubt it would be incredibly controversial.

 

Regarding retail, Costco is so incredibly busy at times that a second location will be built somewhere in the CRD, but the question is where now that Jesken is kaput.

[Schnook]

The bridge was a concept the Ministry of Transportation floated about a decade ago. There's merit to that idea, but no doubt it would be incredibly controversial.

 

Regarding retail, Costco is so incredibly busy at times that a second location will be built somewhere in the CRD, but the question is where now that Jesken is kaput.

 

Thanks.  Yah, I should have said Costco. It's interesting how loyal some shoppers are to that place. I save no money there at all, shopping only for a small family, and the annual fee and distance to drive are disincentives, but to many West Shore residents with a bunch of hungry mouths to feed, Costco seems to be the answer.  I doubt that it would enjoy the same success on the Peninsula.  The demographics and politics are different.

 

I heard once that a large grocer was looking at the abandoned property behind Swiss Chalet on Douglas, site of the old bowling alley, but that was a very long time ago (pre-Uptown), and the space seems too small. 

 

Nice to see the Island Highway north of Uptown getting much-needed attention.

Edited by Schnook, 28 March 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Mike K.]

Loblow's purchased the former Mayfair Lanes property and to this day still owns it. A SuperStore was the intended grocery store, but for one reason or another that fell through. Maybe they knew that Morguard would be pushing Uptown in the near future and that would include a large Wal-Mart with a grocery section -- and Loblaw's fashion store Joe Fresh. You can follow the Loblaw's discussion at http://vibrantvictor.../?hl=superstore

[gkz]

The new proposed Sidney Gateway shopping centre at Beacon and the Pat Bay completely flies in the face of the proposed Beacon Interchange.

 

http://www.timescolo...ghway-1.2003981

 

 

The interchange design was the result of extensive stakeholder consultation - including the airport - but if the above shopping centre is built, this design, or indeed any interchange ever at Sidney, is unlikely to be built. I hope the province intervenes.

 

Edited by gkz, 17 July 2015 - 12:53 PM.

[Nparker]

The new proposed Sidney Gateway shopping centre at Beacon and the Pat Bay completely flies in the face of the proposed Beacon Interchange...The interchange design was the result of extensive stakeholder consultation - including the airport - but if the above shopping centre is built, this design, or indeed any interchange ever at Sidney, is unlikely to be built. I hope the province intervenes...

That was more-or-less my initial thought on this as well.