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#21 gumgum

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 01:40 PM

Forest deal lacked 'regard for public interest'
Critics want Coleman removed from cabinet, deal suspended
Judith Lavoie, Times Colonist
Published: Thursday, July 17, 2008


#22 yodsaker

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 05:19 PM

Coleman is a jerk who is deservedly getting roasted for this. But... decisions like this are not made in a vacuum and it would have gone around the cabinet table for sure. Ultimately Gordo and his minions would have okayed it and figured they could slide it through.
Coleman obviously learned his subtle ways as an RCMP clown.

#23 gumgum

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:30 AM

Former approval official consulting for developer
Judith Lavoie, Times Colonist
Published: Saturday, July 19, 2008



CEO blasts report critical of forest-land transfer

Auditor general's review contains inaccuracies, WFP boss maintains
Judith Lavoie, Times Colonist
Published: Saturday, July 19, 2008


#24 Koru

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 07:34 AM

CRD orders halt to road building on disputed land
Construction violates development permit rules, letter claims
Judith Lavoie, Times Colonist
Published: Friday, July 25, 2008

Western Forest Products has been told to stop building roads around Jordan River and Shirley in an area the company wants to subdivide.

The Capital Regional District has sent a letter to the forest company saying the road building contravenes development permit rules.

Bob Lapham, CRD planning manager, said the main concerns are steep slopes and environmentally sensitive areas. "They cannot alter the land without permits," he said.

No reply has yet been received from the company and, if they persist with the work without applying for permits, the CRD will go to court, Lapham said.

WFP has applied to the provincial Highways Ministry approving officer to build 319 acreages in the oceanfront and ocean-view areas of Vancouver Island's southwest corner.

The land was formerly private forestland included in a tree farm licence, but last year former forests minister Rich Coleman gave WFP permission to pull private lands out of the TFL. The company then put the land on the market and provisionally sold it to developer Ender Ilkay.

But after a public outcry, the CRD rezoned the former forestry and resource lands to 120-hectare minimum lot sizes.

The controversial subdivision application takes advantage of a delay in the province approving the new CRD zoning bylaws.

The delay allowed WFP to apply under the old rules, with one year to obtain subdivision approval and complete preliminary layout work. That 12-month period is up in April.

WFP chief operating officer Duncan Kerr has said that roads are being built only in areas where they can be used for logging if the subdivision application is turned down.

However, Lapham said provincial rules allowing construction of logging roads apply only when the land is being used for forestry and comes under the Private Managed Forest Land Act.

As the company has applied to subdivide the area, it no longer comes under those provincial regulations, he said.

"They are being treated the same way as anyone else," he said.

The rules should not surprise the company as, when the province asked for CRD comments on the application, the Highways Ministry was told development permits and environmental assessments were needed, Lapham said.

Two other lawsuits are pending over the CRD rezoning.

A B.C. Supreme Court hearing is expected Sept. 15 on an application by WFP to quash the zoning changes based on lack of fairness, lack of notification, claims that the CRD exceeded its jurisdiction and acted unreasonably.

The Association of B.C. Landowners is also fighting the bylaws, which caught some smaller landowners in the zoning changes.

The group is challenging the system which allows all CRD directors to debate land-use issues in Juan de Fuca electoral area, but the vote is decided by Juan de Fuca electoral area director Erik Lund, Metchosin Mayor John Ranns and Central Saanich Mayor Jack Mar.

#25 Caramia

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 10:14 AM

The CRD is fighting FOR public interest using the only tools it has. They never should have been put in this position but thank god they are there to at least try. Shame on the province for letting this happen!

#26 manuel

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 06:39 PM

Major update to this story - CRD,TLC and other buying 2300 ha of land including Jordan River Beach and west side of Sooke Potholes. [edit - maps show only further lands on the east side of the existing potholes park + a Jordan River block]

God knows how they are coming up with the money - but all in all in the pubic interest.

http://blog.conserva...ncouver-island/

More information and maps at: http://www.crd.bc.ca...k-watershed.htm
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#27 gumgum

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 07:51 PM

I wonder if some people realize what a huge bullet we've just dodged. Would have destroyed countless acres of wilderness in our backyard. This is great news.
TC story.

#28 piltdownman

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 08:05 PM

Maybe, but I really don't like how this all came about. The CRD essentially forced the property owner to sell the parcel at a very low cost, by blocking use of the land. Essentially the extorted the land out of the property owner. And whilst the result might be expectable, I really don't agree with how this was done.

#29 manuel

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 10:28 PM

Piltdownman - how is this different from how the land was taken out of TFL in the first place - if one person doesn't play by the rules, can the others be expected to sit back and let it happen? No, it isn't necessarily right was the CRD did, but their hand was clearly forced.
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#30 bicycles

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 11:21 PM

great news

#31 piltdownman

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 11:23 PM

To me at least its too much like eminent domain only with out due monetary compensation.

Anyone know what the land was worth as TFL? I can only find that it was speculated to be worth $150m before major opposition to the townsite.

#32 Caramia

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 01:07 PM

This makes me very happy. Hats off to the CRD for being the watchdog we needed in this case.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#33 manuel

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 09:46 PM

Now, let's challenge the Victoria business sports and business communities to raise some significant funds to either purchase the Muir Creek lands or to help the CRD and TLC pay off the purchase? 5 Million would be a great goal!

Here's a couple of ideas:
1 - business community gala event, all the top business people present, with entertainment and sports stars to help raise funds. One upmanship could be at its best here!
2 - fundraising recreation festival at Jordan River. Part music festival (damn, the old camp area would be great for a folk festival!), part sports extravaganza. Could have great food, great music, attract a lot of people. Surfers would be in to giving money, old time campers and fishermen in the area, of course the people who live in the area. What about having Rob Reid, Running Room and Peninsula Runners host a couple of running races, have the bike stores hold mountain bike and road races (wouldn't want to see a downhill sprint finish from the west though), a surfing competition and who knows what else!

Shall we do it?
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#34 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 09:49 PM

Now, let's challenge the Victoria business sports and business communities to raise some significant funds to either purchase the Muir Creek lands or to help the CRD and TLC pay off the purchase? 5 Million would be a great goal!

Here's a couple of ideas:
1 - business community gala event, all the top business people present, with entertainment and sports stars to help raise funds. One upmanship could be at its best here!
2 - fundraising recreation festival at Jordan River. Part music festival (damn, the old camp area would be great for a folk festival!), part sports extravaganza. Could have great food, great music, attract a lot of people. Surfers would be in to giving money, old time campers and fishermen in the area, of course the people who live in the area. What about having Rob Reid, Running Room and Peninsula Runners host a couple of running races, have the bike stores hold mountain bike and road races (wouldn't want to see a downhill sprint finish from the west though), a surfing competition and who knows what else!

Shall we do it?


It'd be a lot easier to just get the CRD board to hike that fee we all pay. You know, the one we had a referendum on to impose it, the one that was set to expire, but they then made permanent and nearly doubled with no referendum.

#35 pseudotsuga

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 03:26 PM

2 - fundraising recreation festival at Jordan River. Part music festival (damn, the old camp area would be great for a folk festival!), part sports extravaganza. Could have great food, great music, attract a lot of people. Surfers would be in to giving money, old time campers and fishermen in the area, of course the people who live in the area. What about having Rob Reid, Running Room and Peninsula Runners host a couple of running races, have the bike stores hold mountain bike and road races (wouldn't want to see a downhill sprint finish from the west though), a surfing competition and who knows what else!

Shall we do it?


Fantastic idea. This would be so cool.
Not sure the locals would all be thrilled though.
Where do I sign up?

#36 manuel

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 06:54 PM

pseudotsuga - I'll work on it and see what we can put together.
"I know nothing"

#37 Bernard

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:11 AM

Some really quick back of the envelope calculations, so do not quote them as gospel, but as approximation. A hectare of the timber harvesting landbase on the coast should conservatively average 3-6 cubic metres of timber per year. Each cubic metre of coastal timber will get you about $75 at the moment fob at the mill gate. So this means each hectare of THLB is has an annual revenue of between $225 and $450 a year.

This would place an annual gross annual revenue for these 2300 hectares at $500,000 to $1,000,000. If I were operating a logging show, I would want to see a long term average net profit from timber harvesting of $40,000 to $80,000 from this volume of timber.

The sale of the land will have impacts in other ways. Annual stumpage lost to BC by this sale will be about $135,000 to $270,000.

Each cubic metre of timber harvested in BC produces $250 to $300 in total economic value for the province. Lost economic activity from this land will be about $17,000,000 to $40,000,000 per year.

The annual direct timber industry employment lost because of the sale of this land is 4 to 7 jobs.

#38 Bernard

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:19 AM

Maybe, but I really don't like how this all came about. The CRD essentially forced the property owner to sell the parcel at a very low cost, by blocking use of the land. Essentially the extorted the land out of the property owner. And whilst the result might be expectable, I really don't agree with how this was done.


The CRD did make an error which was caused by not paying attention to this land. Years ago the CRD should have developed a plan for these lands decided what the zoning should have been. They are guilty of trying to close the barn door after the horse has escaped.

The CRD should have seen this coming given the issues some years back with the forest lands on Galiano.

The regional districts on the east side of Vancouver Island have a lot of privately owned forest lands. At the moment they are ignoring them and that is not a smart idea. For some companies it will be profitable enough for to walk away from a TFL and sell their private lands without any sort of deal.

These lands have been defacto zoned as industrial forestry through them being part of the Forest Land Reserve. Lands in the FLR do not pay property taxes as a quid pro quo for maintaining industrial forestry.

The actions of the CRD are no where near as crazy as what is done with non storage hydro projects. Many regional districts are extorting very lucrative impact benefit agreements from the companies. The funny thing is that this is making more expensive to produce green power and helps the coal fired plants continue, but I digress.

#39 pseudotsuga

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 05:41 PM

^^Can the Province charge stumpage on TFL private land? And if so, wouldn't the stumpage revenue have disappeared when the lands were removed from TFL?

^Sure there is a huge amount of private forest land on the eastern side of the island, but is much of it in TFL?

If the CRD allows events and uses such as Manuel suggests (certainly not a given), I think the loss of 4-7 jobs is small compared to the potential economic benefits from recreation/tourism.

#40 piltdownman

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 05:54 PM

Thanx for the numbers.

The CRD should have seen this coming given the issues some years back with the forest lands on Galiano.


This is actually something I was going to mention. Except that one was way more messy, as I believe the lots were subdivided and sold before the Island's Trust blocked development.

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