17 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

http://www.saanich.c...ocp_review.html

[Gus]

I noticed that the draft plan is now available on line. It looks as though they are proposing to limit high rise development to the Uptown Center only. If they were serious about limiting urban sprawl they would allow high rise development in all major centers. The criteria to allow high rises already protect the neighborhoods any way.

[Holden West]

I'm looking at "Map 4 Urban Containment and Villages and Centres" and noticing that the areas they call "major centres" like Saanich Centre and Tillicum/Burnside are very car-oriented, suburban and pedestrian unfriendly with acres of hectic parking lots and multi-lane highway traffic.

Maybe they should abandon those areas to the automobile and try to develop better major centres modelled after Brentwood Bay or Cook St. Village etc. but with higher density--up to 10 storeys. True compact, dense, walkable, transit-friendly urban centres.

[Gus]

You have to admit that they are certainly making the right noises about reducing the reliance on automobiles. I think that if they insist on developments that encourage pedestrian, cycle and transit use they can positively transform those centers. I think that it is easier to site these type of integrated developments in areas already more developed and on major transit routes like University Center, Uptown, etc. than to disturb the occupants of a less developed area.

[G-Man]

I would love to see some of the projects like Short Street spread south over the car lots. Those two projects (Short Street, Oak Street) and Mayfair Mews are the best infill projects so far outside the city proper.

Build up a high enough pop base and boom instant vibrancy that just might make the new T&C mall into something that people actually want to visit.

The other spot in Saanich that has immense potential is the Shellbourne /Cedar Hill X area. Though it isn't talked about much on here, there has been quite a lot of residential going into the area over the last few years and if there was some will on the part of property owners to change the forms of their strip malls to sidewalk oriented shopping with condos above this area could really be a destination but that will obviously be many years off.

[jklymak]

^ I strongly agree about CHx and Shelbourne. Thats East Saanich's logical Village center in my opinion. Too bad I don't trust Saanich council after they allowed Tuscany to be built. It was kind of the right idea, but so poorly implemented.

[Holden West]

I guess the best possible scenario for major intersections like Shelbourne/McKenzie would be something resembling Granville and Broadway. I mean, what else do you do with six lanes of traffic? :-/

[Gus]

It looks like the planners thinking is that University Centre is to be a major center and Cedar Hill Centre would be a minor center. I hope that they stick to their guns and make developers incorporate pedestrian, cycling and transit friendly features to their projects. I would rather they allow high rises on McKenzie/Shelbourne with those features than allow car friendly "Tuscany Village" style development. I don't think that Tuscany Village will look all that appealing a few years down the road.

[Gus]

Does anyone know when the draft plan will go before council?

[Mike K.]

I don't think that Tuscany Village will look all that appealing a few years down the road.

It's already starting to show its age.

Next time anyone is in the vicinity take a close look at some of the edges of the buildings and where it's already begun chipping away you'll notice the padding under the stucco is styrofoam or a material very similar to it. A good spot to see this is near the Thrifty's loading bay where several trucks have left their mark.

[Holden West]

^Perfectly acceptable--even desirable. If you are trying to create an authentic Tuscan look, crumbling stucco is great! Just crudely slather some more stucco and slap a coat on it and you're there. In fact, they should pay those Thrifty drivers five bucks for each direct hit.

[Nparker]

Tuscany Village was a crap design from the word go. I will be happy to see it crumble and fall apart, if for no other reason than MAYBE it will encourage more appropriate and better design in the future. Are you listening Saanich Council? Don't allow this same mistake to be made at your next big project: Tillicum Mall. I fear it may already be too late for Town & Country (or whatever name that silly project is being called now.)

[Gus]

It would be nice if developers would actually build something that would last for a few years. I'll bet that the real crumbling stucco look in Tuscany (Italy) does not have styrofoam underneath. Tuscany Village is just frame construction with makeup on it. Perhaps the architect is to blame, but council should be careful when approving this stuff.

[Thallin]

Are we going to be seeing an increase in the number of duplexs, condos buildings and other multi familly living builds throughout the area? Or will this just be locallized to the 'centres'? I would think that developing the major access ways such as Carey road into larger buildings would be a good way to go. It would help easy the terrible rental market, currently 0.3% vacancy rate in Victoria, and it would provide buffering for the homes behind them from the increased trafic.

[Gus]

The shortage of rental accommodation is mainly caused by the high development costs. It is less risky for a developer to build and sell condos than to build rental units and make what is at least a 20 year commitment before getting his money back. I don't think that there is a lot of public support for subsidizing development of rental housing, so secondary suites are probably the most likely area of growth in rental units for the near future. The large community centers will likely have to be developed with condos to be economical.

[Mike K.]

I was recently told by an apartment owner that it would take approximately 60 years to realize a profit from a large newly built rental building.

Back in '04 when Quadra Pacific's president wanted to leave a legacy to the city by building several rental buildings councillors chucked him and his plans out the door.

[Thallin]

Thats an amazing figure. But it also paints a dim future for rental units. How much would it cost to build a 16 unit building then? say two bedrooms each with about 1000 sq feet per unit. Disregarding the cost of the land.

If you built such a building and sold each unit as a condo for 350,000 total sales would be 5.6 million. How much of that would be profit, or do you only start to see profit on larger scale developments?

[Gus]

My figures may be a bit outdated, but my guess is that the cost would be around $200 per sq. ft. In a multi family building you generally have to add about 10% in addition to the total suite size for corridors etc. So then the cost per unit is around $220,000 and the cost of the land and other development costs could be another $100,000 (just a guess). The question that an investor will ask himself however, is how much rent do I have to collect to make it worthwhile to rent a $350,000 unit rather than sell it. Just add the mortgage payment, condo fees, property taxes, insurance and other rental costs together and see how much rent you have to have just to break even. Trust me, the necessary monthly rent is well in excess of what you can get in the present market.