145 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

From Saanich's website: Amendment to DPR98-00002 to construct a 13 storey mixed use building with 264 residential units and additional retail/ parking at Tillicum mall. Variances are requested for height and parking.

Site plan can be found here (PDF 1.0 MB)

those buildings actually look pretty good... looks like Montana's & Kelsey's days are numbered

[aastra]

So it'll be two buildings instead of one big fatscraper? That's great!

[gumgum]

Will there be underground parking for retail?

[G-Man]

Wow 11 and 13 storeys that is great. I really hope we see this go through it may be the catylyst for that centre across the street.

[FunkyMunky]

So it'll be two buildings instead of one big fatscraper?

That depends on your definition. After seeing the models tonight, I would say it was effectively one building but others might call it two towers on a podium with a 6 or 7 storey connector.

If you remember the previous presentation, this building is shorter, thicker (east-west) but not as long (north-south).

Will there be underground parking for retail?

Yes, extensive underground parking and a northern extension to the existing parkade. Most of the surface parking outside London Drug's and Stokes would remain (other than what's lost to the building's footprint).

Montana's would move to a new building abutting the northern end of the extended parkade. Kelsey's is closing in the near future and won't be returning.

Wow 11 and 13 storeys that is great.

I believe the fellow said 12 and 13 storeys but I personally didn't count the floors on the elevations displayed. There is also a 6 or 7 storey connector between the two towers.

[G-Man]

So sort of a stretch version of the Aria?

[gjbroom]

Thanks gjbroom! And welcome to the forum.

One question... is this where the new Saanich Centennial library is? I don't get out there much so I am a bit confused.

It's the other end of the mall, where Kelseys and Montana's are. The library is attached to Pearkes Rec Centre.

[AllseeingEye]

IMO any proposal that would address the endless asphalt parking lots that seem to dominate this city is, by definition, a good thing. I'm in that area constantly since my office is near Tillicum and my partner lives on the Gorge. She certainly has no issue with this proposal. I think the increased density will only contribute to a sense of community as more people actually live in the area. Certainly it's come a long way even in the last 5-10 years. "Back in the day" Tillicum mall was a pretty sterile and barren place.

Not to be glib or insensitive to your question Susan, but I do have to chuckle: only in a small city like Victoria could a 13 or (especially) a 9-storey building be referred to - with a straight face moreover - as a "tower". Good grief...

[VicDuck]

That would be a great place to live. A movie theater, Kelsey's, coast Capital, Zellers, London Drugs among a few other good stores though the mall itself kinda sucks.

[aastra]

I'd focus on the esthetics of the building more than anything. The height is a non-issue. Oak Bay has had buildings about that tall for more than 30 years and there have been no ill effects. If Oak Bay can do fine with a couple of junior highrise buildings then so can Tillicum.

Esthetics and format are what I'd be looking at. Is it a fatscraper? You definitely don't want a bland, wide project-style building that look like something transplanted from Alberta or Ontario (or Harris Green).

Tillicum is a very impersonal complex, so I'd be looking for a development that really shifts gears. It shouldn't be a "heavy" building (I presume everyone knows what I mean when I say that). Big windows. No blank faces. And no "back" side. You don't want these apartments to be turning their backs on anything.

The ground floor should be approachable on foot. And the area immediately around the ground floor should be made to seem less like a parking lot and more like a little street. Nobody bothers to walk around a mall after hours but people do bother to walk along city sidewalks after hours and look into shop windows even after the stores are closed. That's the sort of vibe I'd want to see. But that might be asking too much.

Anyway, Tillicum will never be an urban village but it can definitely be a lot better than it is now.

[Nparker]

Great ideas aastra, therefore they will never see the light of day at this location. I expect to see some sort of scaled down, 21st century version of View Towers.

[spanky123]

So $200K gets you 400 sq ft of "living space" I suspect!

Take the $1M in funds up front, get a performance bond, and set a timeline for completion of the project before the development permit expires. Only then will you detrmine whether they are serious or not and think that the plan will work.

[G-Man]

^ Spanky are you capable of a positie comment?

Anyways I think this would be great for Tillicum. The area needs a more 24 hour presence and high density living will allow that. The more eyes the better.

i would also echo Aastra's comments. As a comparision I would say the thing you want to avoid is Oakridge in Vancouver. The residential component is very heavy and not street oriented that said I also will concede NParkers point that at this location any design argument will be contested by a lessor developer. Any idea who it is for this project?

[AnonAnnie2]

Thanks very much for the feedback folks, greatly appreciated.
Keep it coming if you have it. I represent 120 homes or 300 residents pretty much beside the development and really want to get this right.

[spanky123]

^ Spanky are you capable of a positie comment?

After staring at various holes around town that the taxpayer will undoubtably be asked to pay to fill, I think that holding a developer accountable to their promises is not an unreasonable thing.

If Riocan plans to build full sized one bedroom condos and sell them for less than $200K then I entirely support that. I don't think that anyone believes that will happen however.

[Rhodon]

The proposed residential buildings at Tillicum Mall were lowered from the original design, and, I see, the smaller section is along Burnside, so the presence will be less. I like the layering of balconies adn access to units all around the building. It doesn't appear to have a neglected side, especially the side facing the Park. The building heights, even though they are "new" to Saanich, are less than what I see elsewhere around the CRD. The scale and location on a broad open area also makes the project less "large" than if it was situated next to old single-family houses like those that exist nearby. I don't support big for teh sake of big, but this project looks to me to be well thought out after some years of community hearings.

The Ker St residents group always seems to worry about traffic whenever there is any change proposed to the mall. It is hard, after I looked at the site (I shop there occasionally) to see how this would affect them at all. There is more than enough new underground parking space to accommodate the residents and I imagine that more residents will use transit, since several lines pass by their front door! (I understand bus passes are part of the amenities package, too.)

We all have heard about vandalism in Cuthbert Holmes Park escalating, including the recent damage to the fish-counting fence manned by volunteers. I think more "eyes on the ground" will help to make the park and that whole corner of the mall safer for everyone.

One aspect I like is the willingness of Riocan to include some affordable housing on the site. Also, I expect a number of the regular units may be rentals. We need more of that housing mix in the neighbourhood.

All in all, I think this is a decent project and hope it passes Saanich Council soon!

[Nparker]

Is there a website where one can view the proposed design for this project?

[Rhodon]

To NParker:
If you look at the materials available from Saanich for the up-coming Council meeting, you'll notice that the form of the building plus associated space is nothin like View Tower downtown. It is more spread out with multiple sight-lines with street-scale access to the building, either via the main entrance or to individual residential and commercial units on the ground level around the building.

[G-Man]

^^^Wouldn't Tillicum benefit from a nicer tall building rather than a non-descript low-rise that does nothing for the urban form of the neighbourhood?

I am also concerned that the parking lot between Tillicum and the new building is going to be their for the next 50 years because it would be difficult to build on it. It would have been far better if the building was laid out along Burnside with just a road between the mall building and the condos. That way it would be easy to further urbanize the area.

[aastra]

This is what I was trying to say earlier. They shouldn't just plunk this new building on the existing parking lot. They should also try to transform that corner of the parking lot into something resembling a traditional streetscape (as much as possible).