570 replies to this topic

[G-Man]

200 feet long but only six stories high

Something you will NEVER read in a news story about Victoria.

[D.L.]

My two-cents: I don't know what the "real" building would actually look like, but I think the model for 819 Yates is unimpressive. I don't know but that I don't disagree with C.Madoff on this -- it's the podium. The model makes it look open and airy, but fill it in: take a close look. What would it look like? A huge slab at street level, and 2 storeys above it a patio-esque space that's completely undefined. What, exactly, is this supposed to contribute to the streetscape?
I think it's ugly.

How is a three storey podium any different than any other three storey building in the city? What would make the podium here worse than other buildings which are not setback from the sidewalk at the second and third levels? We do not know how the facade of the podium will be treated, so it is unreasonable to call this design ugly at this point unless we also say that all three storey buildings are ugly.

If the podium floors are treated as an open-air parkade that would be nasty, but we aren't being told it will be that way. Would it be impossible to create an above-ground multi-level parking structure which is attractive? Could we demand that it be made attractive while still being three stories?

[Ms. B. Havin]

How is a three storey podium any different than any other three storey building in the city? What would make the podium here worse than other buildings which are not setback from the sidewalk at the second and third levels? We do not know how the facade of the podium will be treated, so it is unreasonable to call this design ugly at this point unless we also say that all three storey buildings are ugly.

If the podium floors are treated as an open-air parkade that would be nasty, but we aren't being told it will be that way. Would it be impossible to create an above-ground multi-level parking structure which is attractive? Could we demand that it be made attractive while still being three stories?

But that's my problem: the model (and the scanned image from the T-C -- thanks, gumgum) don't show how it would be different or what it would look like, or that any thought or effort even went into articulating or defining it in any way. In the model, it's just an open-air chunk, and there's nothing to show what the facade would look like in terms of interacting at street level. The scanned image conveniently has some fuzzy trees or vegetation at sidewalk level, so you can't "read" the setback or the facade or anything. The tower looks better than the Wave's (IMO), but the podium could be anything. Since the Wave is such a mess (again, IMO), I think it's ok to get a little picky about other new structures for that block.

[D.L.]

That model is a massing model not ment to show any detail on the facade. Sure there will be a three storey podium but we can't say it's bad if more details haven't been provided yet. If the architect were to design a nice high quality modern cutting-edge design it could turn out to be a great podium. Already we know there will be a significant cut-out in the podium for the entry way. If I were at city hall dealing with this proposal I would say the podium is fine as long as it is strongly justified with a high quality design. Make it a Shoal Point just to please Holden!

[Holden West]

Too many gargoyles at Shoal Point for my taste.

The people behind this project have a pretty good track record here of paying attention to this type of thing so I'm pretty confident the sidewalk interaction will be great. At least on the Yates Street side. I don't know about a blank wall facing the St. Vincent de Paul loading dock.

[D.L.]

Oh you mean there could be a blank wall on the east side of the podium overlooking the SVDP building? A lot of pre-war buildings built right to the lot lines have solid walls like that, though some do have windows and light wells to break up the wall, or at least use brick which gives a more attractive rough urban look than the white cinder block walls we get today. If it were a blank wall, I think painting it a few different colors would make it better. There is lots of color in Victoria's buildings so it could work.

[Mike K.]

On exposed portions of the wall it could easily be turned into a "living wall."

[Scaper]

I love the look of that T.C. photo from a skyline view. I want to see more curved glass buildings.

[zoomer]

I don't ever recall seeing a Victoria rendering with snow in it!!

I have to agree with Madoff...worst case scenario, it could be a modern View Towers, something I said previously in this thread. The parking should be underground, and two slim towers with a much lower connecting podium.

[Holden West]

Aren't you concerned about the blank walls on both sides? You really think that presents a more attractive streetscape?

[G-Man]

What do you mean there is no reason with say a 2 storey podium you couldn't fit 2 towers with windows on four sides. Think Corazon.

[Holden West]

That would be fine, but why is a two storey podium better than a three storey? What is being accomplished?

[G-Man]

Hey man I was fine with the three storey podium. I just think the parking should be underground. I am not a fan of what they did at 860 View with the parking on the second level.

The podium should be commercial or office or residential whatever will sell best with residents in the two towers.

I guess I just don't understand where these blank walls are you speak of.

[Scaper]

I agree. What's wrong with a three story podium? The Juliet has a four story podium.

[Photogirl]

I really thought the TC picture of the building looked great. It must be so frustrating for developers when they have an idea like this get shot down by the city. I don't see the problem with 20 stories in the neighbourhood, myself. But then, I'm a big supporter of height and density downtown.

[Scaper]

So am I and so are most people. This city needs to get with it. Yates street looks like crap. That building would liven up the street scape so much. I would welcome that with open arms!

[zingzamzoom]

Does anyone find it odd that Victoria's downtown really is not very dense at all, but on this particular block, ie between yates and view, blanshard and quadra, there are a bunch of buildings all just plunked down without any kind of sense of planning? I sort of think it would be awful to never have sunlight in my condo... All of these buldings- The Wave, 860 View, and this new one, should be slim tall buildings that would allow light to soak into all of the units. This new proposal I guess is the best of all of them, but there still does not seem that proper planning is taking place here in Harris Green. What does everyone think?

Aaron

[D.L.]

I don't mind the jumble of residential buildings on that block. Between all of the buildings there are many nice units which get plenty of sunlight. Units in the shadows still provide much needed housing to those who have not yet attained the priviledge of a sunny unit.
None of the units can really be all that bad.

[m0nkyman]

Units in the shadows still provide much needed housing to those who have not yet attained the priviledge of a sunny unit. .

Or for people who have shift work and need to sleep during the day....

[aastra]

I agree with zingzamzoom. The 800-block between Yates and View is becoming very dense.

People want daylight and they want at least a partial view. My concern in this regard is that we'll create these super dense little sections that will produce yet another backlash and discourage further infill projects. It's crazy because there's absolutely no reason for these new buildings to be pasted together. Their podiums can be pasted together, sure, but the tower portions should be slimmer and well separated.

I don't think there's any excuse for not taking care in this regard. It's just too damn easy to do it right.

There's no shortage of space. Still plenty of prime parking lots/empty lots in downtown Victoria.