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Bonus density for heritage restoration


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#1 Rob Randall

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 10:27 AM

Vancouver tries to revamp its successful heritage restoration program:

Paying the price for heritage
Vancouver's wildly successful restoration program raises questions about trade in 'density bonuses'

Under the program, the city hands out the right to increase density on a site to a developer who restores a heritage building.

The developer can sell that right to another developer who could use it elsewhere, possibly by adding more floors to a condominium tower or hotel.

But city planners did not foresee the full impact of allowing the sale of density bonuses from heritage projects to condominium developers.

As expected, the bonuses were used to build condos taller than would otherwise be allowed. But after contributing to restoration by buying density bonuses, developers were no longer required to put any more funds into public amenities.

City Councillor Suzanne Anton said the heritage program has distorted development in Vancouver.

The new condo community in the southern part of the city’s downtown peninsula does not have its own daycare centre, swimming pool or cultural facilities.


I don't know a lot about about Victoria's program although I do know that the grants are fairly modest. I think most grants are well under $100,000. The Hudson condos are an example of density transfer, where the potential density on the heritage Hudson site was transferred and combined on the tower site to the east.

#2 G-Man

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 08:19 AM

Didn't want to start a new thread and this ort of fits in...

Did anyone read about the Johnson Street Bridge?

http://www.timescolo...4881/story.html

This was the part that blew me away

Coun. Pam Madoff is uncertain whether there is a compelling heritage reason for preserving the bridge.

"I think certainly the Johnson Street Bridge is seen as an icon -- absolutely. What we would have to look at are what the engineering challenges are, what the costs are and the lifecycle issues as well --all of those things," said Madoff, adding one of the biggest issues is how to keep traffic moving during any rebuilding or repair.


Is this the same councillor that won't allow additions to crumbling buildings in order to save them? But she is ok with removing one of the most long standing icons of the city because of the financial costs?

So it is okay to force private citizens to bear the cost of her every heritage whim with no discussion, but when it is city owned property she will look to the dollar first.

Makes me want to well you know... :mad:

#3 Baro

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:47 AM

Damn it pam, I'd trade half the heritage designated homes in fairfield if it ment saving this bridge. We've got a million cute wooden siding craftsmens 90% of people never even see but only one blue bridge! The legislature, the empress, the blue bridge. They all define the harbour. Also the bridge is damn interesting, it's dynamic, it moves and is one of the most interesting things in the harbour. I will chain my self up to it if they try to get rid of it!
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#4 G-Man

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:58 AM

Word!

#5 victorian fan

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:12 PM

Where do I sign the Save Our Bridge petition?

#6 Baro

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:17 PM

Maybe we could form some organization to save the bridge from the greedy city government. Over time we'd gain popularity with the voters and we'd run on the coat-tails of that fame. Over time we'd morph into a self-important group with far too much power that held the city hostage as we heritage designated every minor overpass or culvert more than 30 years old. Then we'd do something ridiculously hypocritical and someone on a forum would make fun of us, thus destroying our group for ever in the eyes of the public.
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#7 G-Man

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:38 PM

I'm in! We should have a meeting about the city's plan to replace the heritage sewer pipes and outflow plants.

#8 Holden West

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:10 PM

As you know, modern heritage practice emphasizes the social and historical aspects of heritage, not only the architectural and aesthetic qualities.

Sewage pipes are definitely heritage as they contain intricately engineered brickwork that is virtually extinct along with the fact that the pipes have carried waste from some of Victoria's most famous citizens like Emily Carr.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#9 yodsaker

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:35 PM

As you know, modern heritage practice emphasizes the social and historical aspects of heritage, not only the architectural and aesthetic qualities.

Sewage pipes are definitely heritage as they contain intricately engineered brickwork that is virtually extinct along with the fact that the pipes have carried waste from some of Victoria's most famous citizens like Emily Carr.


Surely there's money to made in tours of the "intricately engineered brickwork".:P

#10 G-Man

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:54 PM

We still have some wood banded pipes as well.

#11 Holden West

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:55 PM

Surely there's money to made in tours of the "intricately engineered brickwork".:P


There sure is! Don't the experts say Victoria should always emulate Paris?
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#12 victorian fan

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:17 PM

CFAX poll now:

Replace it. 272 61%
Repair it. 175 39%

#13 aastra

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 03:50 PM

Coun. Pam Madoff is uncertain whether there is a compelling heritage reason for preserving the bridge.


So there's a compelling heritage reason to want to preserve the 1960s wing of City Hall but there isn't a compelling heritage reason to want to preserve one of the city's defining landmarks? Makes no sense.

I suppose the Johnson Street Bridge can be rather tall when it's in the upright position. That probably counts as a strike against it.


http://www.flickr.co...N00/2468165507/

As you know, modern heritage practice emphasizes the social and historical aspects of heritage, not only the architectural and aesthetic qualities.


Except in this case, apparently.

#14 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:47 PM

Was anyone at the CotW meeting today (according to Cleverly's article, the issue was on the agenda)? I agree that Madoff's remarks are loopy. You have to wonder if she was quoted out of context or something. Otherwise, there's something seriously wrong with her definition of heritage.

PS: I saw camera crews at the Bridge, around 4pm. News item tonight?
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#15 victorian fan

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:52 PM

News item tonight?


5pm A channel. Nothing more than we know already.

#16 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:05 PM

Where do I sign the Save Our Bridge petition?


Yeah, who's up for that?

Quote:
Coun. Pam Madoff is uncertain whether there is a compelling heritage reason for preserving the bridge.

"I think certainly the Johnson Street Bridge is seen as an icon -- absolutely. What we would have to look at are what the engineering challenges are, what the costs are and the lifecycle issues as well --all of those things," said Madoff, adding one of the biggest issues is how to keep traffic moving during any rebuilding or repair.

Is this the same councillor that won't allow additions to crumbling buildings in order to save them? But she is ok with removing one of the most long standing icons of the city because of the financial costs?

So it is okay to force private citizens to bear the cost of her every heritage whim with no discussion, but when it is city owned property she will look to the dollar first.


Given the information Lover Fighter brought forward in the Johnson Street Bridge thread (under Infrastructure) about Federal grants for protecting heritage and for getting heritage designation, I wonder if there's any point in lobbying the right people at the Federal level - since that's the level that the city applied for to get $$ to tear the bridge down - and alert them that this is actually a structure that should be protected?

I mean, do the bureaucrats at the Federal government level really want to look as stupid as Victoria City Council does by colluding in the destruction of a historic artifact?
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#17 Barra

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 07:25 PM

This thread has strayed far off the topic of density bonusing and should be combined with the Johnson St. bridge thread.....
Pieta VanDyke

 



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