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Responses to Panhandling


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#21 Chris J

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 12:19 PM

Before there were food banks there was a greater sense of community, and more poeple grew their own food and hunted more. There was not the same kind of need that we have now.

#22 LJ

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 12:27 PM

I would rather see the minimum wage raised to $12 right away and more later and I would also like welfare rates to cover the cost of accommodation,(whatever that might be in any particular city), and then be enough to cover the basics of living.

To counter this I would also like to see any able bodied person not suffering from a mental impairment cut off welfare and directed to the employment office. Those with mental impairments - institutionalized. Welfare should be the court of last resort, not just because you don't want to work. Those on welfare should be taught life skills as well as job training with the goal to get them off welfare and supporting themselves. Welfare should not be a lifestyle. Daycare should be provided so that single parents can go to work and earn a decent wage. It would also benefit their children as they could be assessed as to how they are being parented while they are in the daycare.. those parents that need improved skills could be taught these after work.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#23 Chris J

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 12:39 PM

That has to rank up there was some of the cruelest ideas I've heard to deal with this issue.
Seriously. Take a look around you. Half the country is on some kind of anti-depressive or anti-psychotic. There is more to mental illness than the straight up dangerous loony that people imagine mental institutions to be for.
Not every able bodied person is able to work, and not every mentally ill person needs to be institutionalized. Often people just need time to heal. You do noy heal in an institution. You rot.
To counter what you have to say able chilcare, I agree it should be made available to people who want it, but I also think parents should be allowed to raise their children.
I don't mean to insult you, but the kind of dark, fascist world you imagine for us is unacceptable. Come on, are you serious?

#24 Sara

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 02:16 PM

Daycare should be provided so that single parents can go to work and earn a decent wage. It would also benefit their children as they could be assessed as to how they are being parented while they are in the daycare.. those parents that need improved skills could be taught these after work.


Can you please explain this. As a single parent I find this statement a little offensive.

#25 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 02:44 PM

I would rather see the minimum wage raised to $12 right away and more later and I would also like welfare rates to cover the cost of accommodation,(whatever that might be in any particular city), and then be enough to cover the basics of living.


Raising the minimum wage means you are being forced to pay someone more than the work is worth. It also means more unemployment.

http://www.jewishwor...owell080101.asp

#26 KublaKhan

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:00 PM

Can you please explain this. As a single parent I find this statement a little offensive.


It's offensive single-parent or double-parent. I'm clutching my chest and/or gasping for air.

I'm guessing (not having read through much of the thread due to time constraints placed upon me by my demanding 5 year old son) that the person who posted the offending comment is generally...oh no...Toodles is calling me so I'll have to go now. Maybe I'll finish this post latter...

#27 mat

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:50 PM

Please keep this thread on topic - it is about our own, and social response to panhandlers, not childcare.

As a note - LJ's opinions maybe well on the other side of the spectrum from responders (and my own), but it is an opinion. Thanks for keeping the discussion 'family friendly'!

#28 LJ

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:42 AM

Can you please explain this. As a single parent I find this statement a little offensive.


What part didn't you understand?
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#29 LJ

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:48 AM

Raising the minimum wage means you are being forced to pay someone more than the work is worth. It also means more unemployment.

http://www.jewishwor...owell080101.asp



5% unemployment is considered full employment, at the present time we still have lots of jobs going unfilled. Until unemployment gets up around the 7% mark I wouldn't worry about it.

Paying somebody more than the work is worth? By whose estimation?
People should be able to live on the minimum wage not be in poverty.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#30 Coreyburger

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:55 AM

Basically, if you are paying more than 30% of your salary in housing (rent+utilities), you are considered in poverty. Being paid minimum wage means you can pay out about 400/month. Good like trying to find a place like that (no, you can't have my place. I pay 375/month and I like it here).

#31 ted - 3 - dots

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:09 AM

I would rather see the minimum wage raised to $12 right away and more later and I would also like welfare rates to cover the cost of accommodation,(whatever that might be in any particular city), and then be enough to cover the basics of living.

To counter this I would also like to see any able bodied person not suffering from a mental impairment cut off welfare and directed to the employment office.

(snip snip )


. Those on welfare should be taught life skills as well as job training with the goal to get them off welfare and supporting themselves. Welfare should not be a lifestyle.

(snip snip )

. those parents that need improved skills could be taught these after work.




------- Sounds good (to you ) on paper , but the reality is some what different --------

Here , some education on the topic
with the help from our friends at the TYEE news ...!

http://thetyee.ca/Vi...11/12/NoWelfare

'Welfare to Work' Didn't Work
BC Libs sat on own report showing no real gains.

http://thetyee.ca/Ne...18/WelfareRolls

How BC Trimmed 107,000 People from Welfare Rolls
Red tape, death likely knocked out far more.

http://thetyee.ca/Ne...08/10/30/BCJobs

BC Jobs Firm a Bust for Ontario

-------- here are my two favorites --------

http://thetyee.ca/Ne...8/09/04/JobWave

Job Training: Taxpayers Taken for $24 Bus Ride
FOIs reveal billing for services not provided. How private contracts inflated cost of welfare-to-work programs.


http://thetyee.ca/Ne...8/08/29/JobWave

Liberals to JobWave: You're Fired
Premier Campbell gives plaque to JobWave graduate in 2005.
$8 million job training contract cancelled; work goes to B.C. competitor.

--------- last word

http://thetyee.ca/Ne...8/04/22/Poverty

Poverty Built into BC's System
Policy changes proposed. Two-year study looks at welfare policies' effects on people.


----- Enjoy the articals ----- perhaps we can have a conversation after you read them...

ted...

#32 Chris J

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:05 PM

I have heard it said that if we raise the minimum wage then there are less jobs, small businesses go out of business, etc. It sounds reasonable, and because I don't study economics that closely, I'll assume for the sake of arguement that it's true.
It's an unfortunate situation, because I believe that it is quite reasonable to expect that working people should live above the poverty line, and make enough to pay rent in this city, and but healthy food, pay the utility bill, dentist, household needs and some fun every so often.
At the same time, we don't want small businesses to go out of business either.
I think it is unfortunate that people start businesses that rely on underpaid labour. Maybe when they started these businesses they were in a better position to pay more wages, or maybe they were working towards a day when they can pay the help a decent wage.
I am tempted to say that if you can't have employees who are paid decently, if your business requires having employees living below the poverty line, then you shouldn't have a business. That said, I know it's not that simple, and there are greater implications of less small businesses, but minimum wage is an insult.

#33 Chris J

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:08 PM

Having said that, in order to stay on topic as to the responses to panhandling, the amount that people get paid is a small factor in why people are out there asking for money. I don't imagine there are many minimum wage earning people panhandling.
I think the response we are discussing right now is that of one of the posters here, who suggested a broad approach to solving poverty in our city.

#34 Caramia

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:40 PM

Among the panhandlers I know personally, whose life stories I know, all but two of them are collecting either disability checks, or welfare. Panhandling is a way to supplement that income.

Regarding poverty, one problem I think we have in society is that our concept of what a 'minimum" standard of living includes has got out of control. If I had cable TV, bought new clothes every year, owned a car, had my hair cut every 6 months, smoked cigarettes, went out to pubs in the evening, and bought store bought bread instead of making my own, I would be poor and in debt. If I felt I needed my own apartment, or even my own bedroom and privacy, I probably never would have survived my early 20s. Living simply, and sharing with family or friends is really really cheap, and surprisingly, the quality of life can be incredibly rich.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#35 ted - 3 - dots

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:51 PM

Among the panhandlers I know personally, whose life stories I know, all but two of them are collecting either disability checks, or welfare. Panhandling is a way to supplement that income.

Regarding poverty, one problem I think we have in society is that our concept of what a 'minimum" standard of living includes has got out of control. If I had cable TV, bought new clothes every year, owned a car, had my hair cut every 6 months, smoked cigarettes, went out to pubs in the evening, and bought store bought bread instead of making my own, I would be poor and in debt. If I felt I needed my own apartment, or even my own bedroom and privacy, I probably never would have survived my early 20s. Living simply, and sharing with family or friends is really really cheap, and surprisingly, the quality of life can be incredibly rich.



---- nothing like huddling on-mass ----------

actually , wasn't this country built on offering the type of prosparity were one could afford to get one's hair-cut , TV , and food for you and your kids ...?

((( better check what the Canadian imagration Service is saying to people around the world ,
about imagrating here to Canada )))


the promiss of prosparity is still being made ...!!!!!!!!!!!!

check what the news-paper say about life in Canada compared to other places in world
(ya , like we are one of the best countries to live in )


---------- Any ways ------------


some people I know don't have friend's or family to "huddle" with ...!

ted...

---------- Ps , I know of a few people who were part of the 107,000 people
that the Gordon-Cambell-Liberals ,,, KICKED-OFF welfare ...!

one was kick-off welfare FOR-LIFE ( for welfare-fraud...! ie: they didn't go to a job search )

BC , IS THE ONLY PROVINCE TO HAVE SUCH A RULE in effect ...!


----------- Please Read some of those Articals from my buddy @ the TYEE --------

the one's I listed below ....!
like this one :

http://thetyee.ca/Ne...18/WelfareRolls

How BC Trimmed 107,000 People from Welfare Rolls
Red tape, death likely knocked out far more.


ok ...?

#36 yodsaker

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:44 PM

Before there were food banks there was a greater sense of community, and more poeple grew their own food and hunted more. There was not the same kind of need that we have now.


Growing food and hunting in the urban jungle? Who wants to eat grass or stray cats?

#37 yodsaker

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:53 PM

Many years ago my wife and I spent $7 a week on groceries (it bought two large bags at that time).
But we learned how to make soups, got day-old bread from a bakery and made great pasta dishes with a can of tuna. We ate decently enough for two days for the same price as a single McD cheeseburger.
I'm not saying everyone could or should do this but if people could learn some simple cooking skills they could avoid over-priced, nutritionally empty food and stretch the dollars they do have.

#38 Chris J

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:43 PM

Growing food and hunting in the urban jungle? Who wants to eat grass or stray cats?

You haven't lived until you've tasted squirrel. And UVIC rabbits are looking good this season.

#39 Holden West

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:54 PM

****ing squirrels they are so stringy but they taste like chicken.
PS. Mrs west posted this.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#40 spanky123

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:57 PM

Many years ago my wife and I spent $7 a week on groceries (it bought two large bags at that time).
But we learned how to make soups, got day-old bread from a bakery and made great pasta dishes with a can of tuna. We ate decently enough for two days for the same price as a single McD cheeseburger.
I'm not saying everyone could or should do this but if people could learn some simple cooking skills they could avoid over-priced, nutritionally empty food and stretch the dollars they do have.


A friend of mine has a couple of houses he owns in the Hillside mall area. They are older homes that are two stories and have been configured to have 3 bedrooms on each story. He rents each floor of the house for $1,000 a month. Usually there are 3-4 people living on a floor. Sometimes he has students but most often they are young adults who can bus, bike or walk to work from the central location.

In one of the houses a couple of the people plant vegetables in the back yard and most times when he stops by to pick up the rent there is someone cooking a basic meal in the kitchen.

If you don't smoke, do drugs, or drink more than casually, you can get by on about $500-$600 a month in this environment. It is not luxury, but even a minimum wage jobs pays the bills and allows for a little savings.

For many people it is about choices.

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