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[Johnson Street Bridge REPLACEMENT] Funding discussion


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#41 Holden West

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:22 PM

^I'd say that estimate is pretty conservative considering arenas are pretty much cookie cutter structures--we've been building them for a couple thousand years; no surprises. Bridges are common too, but this looks like it will be quite unique. What if the seabed is unstable? What if they find a massive deposit of contaminated soil? What if they have to schedule lots of overtime to fit within the "fish window"? Don't forget the realignment costs on both sides.

And yes, the long overdue arena cost us half that but remember, that's just what we paid for it--not what the final cost was. Big difference.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
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#42 aastra

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 06:13 AM

A lot of people stand to make big bucks if the work goes ahead and crazy bucks once things start to fall behind and we rush the process to meet the completion deadline.


But do local politicians stand to make big bucks off of this? They're the ones driving it, are they not? Are we thinking our local politicians are being coerced somehow? Or that they've been bamboozled?

Or do we accept the premise that the bridge could collapse at any moment and that it really must be replaced ASAP? Even though it's still open to traffic as I type this?

#43 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 07:17 AM

*** Dean Fortin alert ***

He'll be on CFAX at about 8:20am TODAY....

#44 spanky123

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 07:57 AM

But do local politicians stand to make big bucks off of this? They're the ones driving it, are they not? Are we thinking our local politicians are being coerced somehow? Or that they've been bamboozled?

Or do we accept the premise that the bridge could collapse at any moment and that it really must be replaced ASAP? Even though it's still open to traffic as I type this?


I am not of the opinion that politicians live in a bubble. I think that in most instances decisions get made for them and they are simple the instruments to enact them.

#45 Guest_Marcat_*

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 08:20 AM

63 million isn't completely ridiculous when you consider the time consuming process it will be to dismantle the bridge, new abutments, traffic control, any soil remediation that is needed, the design, engineering, and architecture associated with the new bridge, then the actual construction of the new bridge...Granted it appears there are some transparency issues coming out of City Hall on this one, they are working under a deadline, at least if we want any money from the Feds to offset the costs locally.

#46 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 10:38 AM

Victoria council passes bylaw to fund Johnson Street bridge replacement

Times Colonist
August 28, 2009

Victoria city council passed a bylaw last night to borrow $63 million to replace the Johnson Street bridge.

The first three readings of the borrowing bylaw were passed quickly. Fourth and final reading will occur at a later date.

...

http://www.timescolo...9347/story.html

#47 victorian fan

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 11:40 AM

COUNCIL ALSO APPROVED A BORROWING BYLAW FOR THE REPLACEMENT OF THE JOHNSON STREET BRIDGE.

MAYOR FORTIN SAYS NOW THE BORROWING APPLICATION WILL GO TO THE PROVINCE FOR THEIR APPROVAL.

"IF THEY'RE OKAY WITH THAT, THEN IT WILL COME BACK AND THEN WE GO INTO THE FULL PUBLIC CONSULTATION AROUND WHETHER WE SHOULD BORROW THE MONEY AT ALL," SAYS FORTIN.

http://www.cfax1070....hp?newsId=10333

#48 G-Man

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:17 PM

Video of the council passing the bylaw:

Click here

#49 spanky123

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:41 PM

COUNCIL ALSO APPROVED A BORROWING BYLAW FOR THE REPLACEMENT OF THE JOHNSON STREET BRIDGE.

MAYOR FORTIN SAYS NOW THE BORROWING APPLICATION WILL GO TO THE PROVINCE FOR THEIR APPROVAL.

"IF THEY'RE OKAY WITH THAT, THEN IT WILL COME BACK AND THEN WE GO INTO THE FULL PUBLIC CONSULTATION AROUND WHETHER WE SHOULD BORROW THE MONEY AT ALL," SAYS FORTIN.

http://www.cfax1070....hp?newsId=10333


Fortin must be covering his butt.

He was just quoted in the TC as saying ...

But Mayor Dean Fortin said senior government funding wasn’t part of the equation when council made its decision to replace, rather than repair the bridge.

#50 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:53 PM

Fortin must be covering his butt.

He was just quoted in the TC as saying ...

But Mayor Dean Fortin said senior government funding wasn’t part of the equation when council made its decision to replace, rather than repair the bridge.


That statement is right and wrong. He said last night that they could have applied for funding for either replacement, or repair. That's true.

But I think it is probably also true that repair would have a much more difficult time meeting the deadline of March 2011. As he correctly stated, during repair, great pains would have to be taken to make sure no crap is dropped into the water, so it practically has to be wrapped during repair. And during repair, it still needs to be able to go up and down, so that makes it even more difficult. So in that case, funding would not have been available for repair.

#51 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 01:55 PM

Fortin must be covering his butt.

He was just quoted in the TC as saying ...

But Mayor Dean Fortin said senior government funding wasn’t part of the equation when council made its decision to replace, rather than repair the bridge.


From the city's johnsonstreetbridge.com website (finally up), the FAQ page:

Q: How will the City fund the new bridge if provincial and federal funding falls through?

A: If the City is not successful in securing stimulus funding, it will seek approval to borrow the full amount but will only spend what is needed.

G-Man nailed it: they're going to ding us for the whole amount, come hell or high water.

Love the "will only spend what is needed" - even if it's 30 or so million dollars more than the $63million applied for, presumably. Need is need, right? How reassuring.
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#52 victorian fan

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 02:08 PM

^


#53 victorian fan

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 01:22 PM

VICTORIA RATEPAYERS PETITION 1878

To the Honourable Mr. Speaker and the Honourable the Members of the Legislative Assembly.
The humble Petition of the undersigned ratepayers of the City of Victoria sheweth: That it is in the contemplation of the Municipal Council of Victoria to expend a large portion of the municipal revenue in the erection of a City Hall, or other building, for municipal purposes, without the consent of the ratepayers, and without making due provision for the ordinary and necessary sanitary and street works and lighting of the city. Your petitioners, therefore, humbly pray that your Honourable House will make and pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the Municipal Council of the City of Victoria from expending any portion of the revenue of the said city in the erection of any municipal building, without having first obtained the consent of the ratepayers. And your petitioners will ever pray, etc.


with a little rewording........

#54 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:14 AM

Jim Flaherty is in town today.

Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty will provide an update of his budget plans in a speech today in Victoria, British Columbia, people familiar with the event said.

The speech will include more details on the government’s forecasts, the people said on condition they not be identified by name. Reporters will be provided the speech on an embargoed basis at 2 p.m., almost two hours before Flaherty is scheduled to speak to the Greater Victoria Chamber of Commerce.

Flaherty told reporters Sept. 5 slower economic growth makes it difficult to say with certainty whether the country will balance its books by the 2013-14 fiscal year. The government has previously said the economic outlook was consistent with plans to balance the budget within five years.

The governing Conservatives have forecast a record deficit of C$50.2 billion ($46.4 billion) this fiscal year because of slowing revenue, increased claims for unemployment benefits and the costs associated with an auto industry bailout.

The department said Aug. 21 data for the first three months of the fiscal year are “consistent” with its full-year budget projections.


http://www.bloomberg...id=agudJd7LD_JI

#55 collywobbles

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:21 AM

^ It's not a local funding announcement. Like Bloomberg reported, it's national finance policy stuff/update on the economy. And doling out infrastructure funds is John Baird's job, not Flaherty's.

#56 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 02:54 PM

You're right, nothing there at all. He said the mayor had pushed his case, outlined the fact we were looking at three options, but he said he'd just pass along information to John Baird. When asked if he thought it was a suitable project, Flaherty said he was not close enough to the project to comment.

Denise Savoie said she'll bring it up with Baird next week:

"Hi John! Welcome back to Ottawa. Now, I know voters in my riding have not elected a Conservative MP for 25 years, but is there any way you could swing us $21M, and soon?"

< crickets chirping >

"OK, well, see ya in the house, John!"

#57 concorde

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 05:45 PM

Denise Savoie said she'll bring it up with Baird next week:

"Hi John! Welcome back to Ottawa. Now, I know voters in my riding have not elected a Conservative MP for 25 years, but is there any way you could swing us $21M, and soon?"

< crickets chirping >


So very very true. I can just hear a similar conversation at the provincial legislature now

#58 Bob Fugger

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:21 PM

You're right, nothing there at all. He said the mayor had pushed his case, outlined the fact we were looking at three options, but he said he'd just pass along information to John Baird. When asked if he thought it was a suitable project, Flaherty said he was not close enough to the project to comment.

Denise Savoie said she'll bring it up with Baird next week:

"Hi John! Welcome back to Ottawa. Now, I know voters in my riding have not elected a Conservative MP for 25 years, but is there any way you could swing us $21M, and soon?"

< crickets chirping >

"OK, well, see ya in the house, John!"


That goes double at the provincial cabinet table. I remember hearing someone scoff when I suggested that to Council that night.

#59 spanky123

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:28 PM

How about "now that you just announced we are another $5B in the hole and a return to a balanced budget is at least 7 years out, can you spare an extra $21M"!

#60 collywobbles

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 08:50 AM

OK, so I was wrong yesterday when I said Flaherty isn't the one doling out the infrastructure funds (though he did it with Baird beside him). The real news, though, is that the dollars are starting to be announced -- which couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Liberal's election push.

http://www.cbc.ca/ca...33.html?ref=rss

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