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Sidney - Tsawwassen ferry services (non-BC Ferries)


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#1 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 11:55 AM

Anybody else think there might be a good business case for both passenger ferry and flights on this crossing?

I'm not sure why BCF doesn't see if there is a market for a quicker passenger-only ferry.

But if not, why not a flight and passenger-only ferry centre?

I see that Van-Nan flights are only $49 or $54. With way more traffic-load, don't you think they could do Swartz Bay-Tswassen for $30 or $40?

#2 Holden West

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:18 PM

I thought "quick ferry" equals excessive wake problems for the islands and that was one of the things that scuttled the Fast Cats?
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#3 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:26 PM

"Quick, large, car-carrying ferry" may cause wake issues, I don't think a smaller one would.

The thing is, 90% of what BCF builds for is cars. Huge parking areas where cars wait, huge vessels that can carry cars.

Your average car weighs over 4000lbs these days, can't walk up stairs etc. So a car that weighs over 20x the weight of a person only pays 5 or 7 times the fare of a person. And a person might buy a magazine or a buffet dinner to help the bottom line, to make more money. A car just sits there and takes up space.

The new COASTAL ferries take 1,650 passengers and 370 vehicles.

Those 370 vehicles weigh the equivalent of 8,500 175lb-people.

#4 Holden West

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:32 PM

That's an interesting question. What is most profitable?

Passengers only? Mixed? How about cargo only (no public services needed)?

Our ferries make a lot from cars but they require lots of staffing time and fuel-hogging space.

Here's an idea. Open a Minute-Lube franchise on board. Maybe an auto detailer as well.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#5 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:34 PM

Consider that there is a total of two car ferries between Washington State and the Victoria area (one heavily goverment-subsidized), but there are as many as 5 passenger-only ferries plying those waters at high-season.

My point is, car ferries are generally subsidized, at least on their car-carrying portion of operations.

#6 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:36 PM

That's an interesting question. What is most profitable?

Passengers only? Mixed? How about cargo only (no public services needed)?

Our ferries make a lot from cars but they require lots of staffing time and fuel-hogging space.

Here's an idea. Open a Minute-Lube franchise on board. Maybe an auto detailer as well.


I think our ferries lose money on cars... but it's only recently that the corporation had to operate with a fixed subsidy, so all the facilities were already there. I don't think you'd find BCF building a new port like Duke Point with today's set-up, and that is probably a good thing.

A profitable barge operation already exists. I think we ought to visit my idea of an open port, just like an airport.

#7 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:43 PM

Here's an idea. Open a Minute-Lube franchise on board. Maybe an auto detailer as well.


Here's a better idea. Alcohol on board, and a casino/slots on the larger ships. Why not? No different than requiring parking lots at pubs. And if you wanted to go real Nazi, you could place wristbands on passengers that are in each car, but aren't driving, only them would be allowed in the alcohol lounge. Heck, give wristbands to only walk-ons, you'd have the driver dropping off all their passengers to walk on, then they'd return to the lot solo to line up.

#8 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:48 PM

Why not a high-end liquor store on-board and/or at the terminals?

#9 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:52 PM

Heck, while I'm on a roll, why not food vendors like hawkers at a baseball game going up and down the rows of cars? Is newspapers the best they could come up with? If my ferry was leaving in maybe 12 minutes and I did not know exactly the time I'd need to be back in my car, or if the cafeteria line-up was bad, but then some chick in a small top leaned into my window and offered me a $3 hot dog, I'd find it hard to refuse.

#10 Holden West

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 01:00 PM

Bringing alcohol on board a ferry is a touchy topic but a duty-free style boutique set up at the arrivals side featuring local brews and wines would be a good way to introduce tourists to our great cottage industries.

I guess the problem I have is private companies skimming off the profitable cream from the cross-strait ferry business, leaving subsidized ferries to bear the burden of expensive but crucial smaller routes.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#11 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 01:09 PM

I guess the problem I have is private companies skimming off the profitable cream from the cross-strait ferry business, leaving subsidized ferries to bear the burden of expensive but crucial smaller routes.


You think it's right that routes #1-3 make money to pay for every smaller one?

I've called for a phase-in period of 25 years to make every route priced at the cost-recovery rate. If you live on the Penders now, you know your rate will be going up slowly (over and above regular inflation) over the next 25 years. If you buy property on Saturna today, you know what you are looking at in the future.

And by saying "I've called for", that really just means the thought has been in my head, or on this forum.

#12 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 01:13 PM

Bringing alcohol on board a ferry is a touchy topic but a duty-free style boutique set up at the arrivals side featuring local brews and wines would be a good way to introduce tourists to our great cottage industries.


That's why I said high-end. No one is gonna take swigs from a $50 bottle of wine in the bathroom stall or their stateroom.

#13 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 02:28 PM

Swartz Bay to DeltaPort looks to be about a 20% shorter route than Nanaimo Harbour to Coal Harbour, BTW.

Deltaport is where I'm proposing my floatplane and passenger ferry terminal, if BCF won't play ball, BTW.

BCF-Tswassen isn't the only isthmus in town... OK, it's not really an isthmus, it's more like a peninsula, but isthmus sounds cooler, when we get down to heavy negotiations it might throw them off....

#14 aastra

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 05:22 PM

I've been wondering about the viability of fast, passenger-only service between Oak Bay and the west side of Vancouver.

#15 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:34 AM

How about Gordon Head to San Juan Island (Friday Harbor).

#16 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:45 PM

^ I like it - your arguments about the cars hogging all that ferry space makes sense to me, VHF.

Integrate it with Zipcar.
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#17 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:41 AM

Seaspan Ferries officially opened its new $44-million ferry freight terminal on Monday as the company responds to rising demand on Vancouver Island.

“There is just steady growth in the amount of traffic to and from Vancouver Island,” Frank Butzelaar, CEO of Seaspan ULC, said at Nanaimo’s Duke Point.

Business has been growing annually by between two and two-and-a-half per cent, he said.

That business consists of trailers filled with every kind of consumer good coming to the Island. The food you buy and the computers you work on could well have arrived on a trailer riding on a Seaspan ferry.

Seaspan ferries make a total of 11 round trips per day, with six of those at Duke Point and the remainder at Seaspan’s terminal at Swartz Bay. The crossing takes four hours, and another two hours is spent loading and unloading trailers, which ride by themselves on a ferry.

A special truck connects to a trailer, hauling it off the ferry for its customers to pick up. It takes just 20 seconds to hook up a trailer.

The company moves more than 500 trailers per day and 20,000 automobiles per year, Butzelaar said.

Seaspan Ferries Corp. bought Van Isle Barge Co. in 2011 at the location of its new terminal, promising customers a $250-million investment in terminals and new vessels to replace an aging fleet, Butzelaar said.

Since then, two new 488-feet ferries, fuelled by liquefied natural gas, have come into service, each capable of carrying about 50 trailers that are 53 feet long.

 

- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.gtVvqwFW.dpuf


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#18 Rob Randall

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:19 PM

Meanwhile...

When New York City took over ferry routes along the East River, using a new fleet of small boats, and lowering the fares, officials anticipated that weekend demand might be higher in the summer.

But the city underestimated just how much demand would outstrip supply, forcing it to charter two extra boats — each capable of carrying 400 people — to handle summer weekend crowds, at a cost of $485,000 for the summer, or about $60,000 per weekend.


https://www.nytimes....&smtyp=cur&_r=0

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#19 rambaldi

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 09:11 PM

"Dogwood Ferries is a new operation, wanting to run a ferry between Pat Bay and Cowichan Bay via a potential new terminal in North Saanich near the Victoria International Airport."

https://www.goldstre...at-alternative/



 



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