465 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

If you're going from Hope to downtown Vancouver, it's 4 different vehicles, takes about 5 hours, and is only available a handful of times per day. 

 

That's fine. I don't think it needs to be express service, but at least you can make that trip if you want to. We can't right now, even though the systems can easily link up like they do in Comox and Campbell River, and how they'll soon connect Nanaimo with Cowichan.

[vortoozo]

That's fine. I don't think it needs to be express service, but at least you can make that trip if you want to. We can't right now, even though the systems can easily link up like they do in Comox and Campbell River, and how they'll soon connect Nanaimo with Cowichan.

 

But that's not realistic. Why would you do that, when you can take a privately operated coach that takes between 2 and 2.5 hours?

I reckon the number of people that do a through trip between Hope & Vancouver using public transit in a year could be counted on two hands.

Edited by vortoozo, 16 February 2021 - 09:40 PM.

[Mike K.]

But they have that option. Why do we have buses to Sooke but not to Mill Bay? Same distance. Many thousands more cars travel the TCH into Langford, than drive Highway 14 into Langford. Sooke transit use is the highest per-capita of commuters anywhere in the CRD.

[Mike K.]

I mean there are already one-way AM buses, why can’t they run all day in some capacity? It just seems so odd, like it’s a bit of a turf war.

[vortoozo]

I mean there are already one-way AM buses, why can’t they run all day in some capacity? It just seems so odd, like it’s a bit of a turf war.

 

Funding and transit priorities. I feel like we're lucky to have the level of service that we do all the way through Sooke; most Canadian municipalities don't have anywhere near that service to smaller outlaying communities. Yet people from Sooke would tell you that they are underserved.

I grew up in Dundas, a town of 20K on the west side of Hamilton which amalgamated with the city. Even though there's no "break" in urbanization between the two, much of Dundas received hourly bus service, even at rush hour. And it's only half an hour by bus to downtown Hamilton, passing McMaster. Built up the whole way. Not like the stretch between Langford and Sooke which is fairly rural. I had a look at the route and it's now every half hour, whereas if the route were here in Victoria it would probably be similar to route 6 which has service every 5-10 minutes during the day.

 

I agree, more transit is better, but if only an average of 5 people are going to take it on the counterflow direction back to Duncan then it makes no economic sense to run. I would argue that there are higher transit priorities and in the 9+ years that I've been in Victoria I've seen the system grow nearly every year.

[Mike K.]

There are 40,000 people between Duncan and Langford, including Duncan.

So your town of 20k had hourly bus services into Hamilton, which is now every 30 minutes. South Cowichan has no bus services other than the six AM/PM one-ways, split into two routes. I think we’re starting to see the issue with a little more clarity now.

Just to put that in perspective, the entirety of Cowichan’s transit services into the CRD are equal to Sooke’s departing services into Victoria by 6:53AM, with 23 more runs scheduled Mon-Thu and 24 on Friday, one-way. And Sooke is going to see a much needed infusion of services within the next two years.

Yet we act like Cowichan doesn’t exist when looking at our transit network, despite a highway full of cars traveling to and from.

[VIResident]

Funding and transit priorities. I feel like we're lucky to have the level of service that we do all the way through Sooke; most Canadian municipalities don't have anywhere near that service to smaller outlaying communities. Yet people from Sooke would tell you that they are underserved.

I grew up in Dundas, a town of 20K on the west side of Hamilton which amalgamated with the city. Even though there's no "break" in urbanization between the two, much of Dundas received hourly bus service, even at rush hour. And it's only half an hour by bus to downtown Hamilton, passing McMaster. Built up the whole way. Not like the stretch between Langford and Sooke which is fairly rural. I had a look at the route and it's now every half hour, whereas if the route were here in Victoria it would probably be similar to route 6 which has service every 5-10 minutes during the day.

 

I agree, more transit is better, but if only an average of 5 people are going to take it on the counterflow direction back to Duncan then it makes no economic sense to run. I would argue that there are higher transit priorities and in the 9+ years that I've been in Victoria I've seen the system grow nearly every year.

 

A friend of mine, in Sooke, attended an 'info' session with the town of Sooke and BC Transit for 'neighbourhood' input on busses running through a subdivision. 

Every point my friend and others brought up had a nice pat answer from either town or BC Trans. to justify the 'new' bus route.  In the end that bus (likely another second-hand carbon belching hunk-o-junk from Vancouver) was approved for that street and subdivision.  BC Transit is quickly becoming a 'stop-the-enviro/money-waste' target and rightly so. 

[Mike K.]

I’m not sure I understand the above. Your friend convinced BC Transit to run a route through her neighbourhood in Sooke using an old bus from Vancouver, and that’s good or bad?

[VIResident]

I’m not sure I understand the above. Your friend convinced BC Transit to run a route through her neighbourhood in Sooke using an old bus from Vancouver, and that’s good or bad?

1.  Town of Sooke/BC Transit wanted to add another bus route in Sooke within a subdivision and held a Q&A on the pretense of getting 'input' - the standard BS session where officials can tick that box off

2.  Subdivision residents had questions and concerns, all concerns had a 'pat' answer from Town and BC Transit

3.  Regardless of concerns bus route initiated (the outcome of every box-ticketing BS session we've become accustomed to in Victoria)

4.  All busses in outlying areas (some in Victoria too) are second-hand carbon belching junk heaps from Vancouver 

[vortoozo]

1.  Town of Sooke/BC Transit wanted to add another bus route in Sooke within a subdivision and held a Q&A on the pretense of getting 'input' - the standard BS session where officials can tick that box off

2.  Subdivision residents had questions and concerns, all concerns had a 'pat' answer from Town and BC Transit

3.  Regardless of concerns bus route initiated (the outcome of every box-ticketing BS session we've become accustomed to in Victoria)

4.  All busses in outlying areas (some in Victoria too) are second-hand carbon belching junk heaps from Vancouver 

 

Wait, so you're complaining that your friend didn't want bus service and got it anyway?

Particular busses aren't assigned to specific routes so there's no possible way that point 4 is correct.

[vortoozo]

There are 40,000 people between Duncan and Langford, including Duncan.

So your town of 20k had hourly bus services into Hamilton, which is now every 30 minutes. South Cowichan has no bus services other than the six AM/PM one-ways, split into two routes. I think we’re starting to see the issue with a little more clarity now.

Just to put that in perspective, the entirety of Cowichan’s transit services into the CRD are equal to Sooke’s departing services into Victoria by 6:53AM, with 23 more runs scheduled Mon-Thu and 24 on Friday, one-way. And Sooke is going to see a much needed infusion of services within the next two years.

Yet we act like Cowichan doesn’t exist when looking at our transit network, despite a highway full of cars traveling to and from.

 

That's not analogous. Cowichan Valley has it's own transit system that consists of a lot more than a handful of busses to Victoria. In fact, there are 16 routes, many with all day service.

Victoria & the Cowichan Valley are separated by approx 45 minutes of rural mountain road. That's not the case between Dundas and Hamilton.

I was using the Dundas & Hamilton example to compare with Victoria & Sooke, where service traditionally has been significantly better despite the further distance and rural nature of much of the route between Langford and Sooke.

[Mike K.]

But none of that addresses the need for travel to and from Cowichan, which clearly exists. It’s happening right now in the form of thousands of vehicles. In fact it’s one of the busiest commuter corridors on Vancouver Island. Also, Langford neighbours Cowichan. It’s not 45 minutes away.

The crazy thing is there are 30,000 people living in an area roughly the size of Metchosin and East Sooke north of Langford and south of Duncan, but they are disconnected by transit to the Capital, despite it serving as an employment and commercial services hub.

[Mike K.]

4. All busses in outlying areas (some in Victoria too) are second-hand carbon belching junk heaps from Vancouver

Victoria does not receive buses from Vancouver. Whoever told you that is spinning a yarn. I agree, though, sometimes these transit feedback sessions feel like you’re trapped within the confines of what transit wants and doesn’t want. There doesn’t seem to be the feeling of helping guide the system improvements, but maybe there is but we just don’t see it as transit planners have got this stuff down to a decent science.

[Mike K.]

I honestly think the transit mess between regional districts is more about taxation powers than need. We’re supposed to believe Sooke qualifies for transit but Shawnigan doesn’t. It’s a very strange belief to uphold.

[Victoria Watcher]

I honestly think the transit mess between regional districts is more about taxation powers than need. We’re supposed to believe Sooke qualifies for transit but Shawnigan doesn’t. It’s a very strange belief to uphold.

 

or it's just about demand.  shawnigan residents exhibit no serious demand.  they own lots of cars.

[vortoozo]

But none of that addresses the need for travel to and from Cowichan, which clearly exists. It’s happening right now in the form of thousands of vehicles. In fact it’s one of the busiest commuter corridors on Vancouver Island. Also, Langford neighbours Cowichan. It’s not 45 minutes away.

The crazy thing is there are 30,000 people living in an area roughly the size of Metchosin and East Sooke north of Langford and south of Duncan, but they are disconnected by transit to the Capital, despite it serving as an employment and commercial services hub.

 

Again I agree that increase in transit is a good thing, but once again outside of the GTA regional public transit simply isn't a priority in Canada. If you asked most people in Cowichan that rely on transit if they would prefer more local routes with access to services in their community or more frequent service to Victoria, I think most transit users would prefer being able to get to the grocery store and pharmacy reliably. There's only so many tax dollars to go around.

 

Victoria does not receive buses from Vancouver. Whoever told you that is spinning a yarn. I agree, though, sometimes these transit feedback sessions feel like you’re trapped within the confines of what transit wants and doesn’t want. There doesn’t seem to be the feeling of helping guide the system improvements, but maybe there is but we just don’t see it as transit planners have got this stuff down to a decent science.

 

BC Transit did purchase some second hand busses from Vancouver as a stop gap measure during their recent bus shortage, but they don't sit there and say - OK, those busses are all going to service VIResident's friend's neighbourhood even though he doesn't want service. That's simply not how it works.

[Mike K.]

or it's just about demand.  shawnigan residents exhibit no serious demand.  they own lots of cars.

 

Sooke residents don't own lots of cars? The province is investing $86 million into a single kilometre of highway, because there are so many cars in Sooke, and travelling to Sooke.

[Mike K.]

Again I agree that increase in transit is a good thing, but once again outside of the GTA regional public transit simply isn't a priority in Canada. If you asked most people in Cowichan that rely on transit if they would prefer more local routes with access to services in their community or more frequent service to Victoria, I think most transit users would prefer being able to get to the grocery store and pharmacy reliably. There's only so many tax dollars to go around.

 

I don't think we've actually asked, that's the issue. Meanwhile how many more times will communities on the Island raise the alarm over not having reliable inter-city transportation? It's a weekly complaint now, and those services are always facing a risk of cancellation.

 

There is a bit of a turf ware between the Cowichan and Capital regional districts. The way CMAs are calculated is based on a percentage of commuting into a CMA from external communities, and we're well past the threshold when it comes to south Cowichan, but Victoria's CMA does not include even a single community north of Langford.

[Victoria Watcher]

Sooke residents don't own lots of cars? The province is investing $86 million into a single kilometre of highway, because there are so many cars in Sooke, and travelling to Sooke.

 

let me state this as eloquently and delicately as i can.

 

 

welfare bums live in sooke.  not shawnigan lake.

[Mike K.]

let me state this as eloquently and delicately as i can.

 

 

welfare bums live in sooke.  not shawnigan lake.

 

You could rather easily look up the average incomes in both communities rather than pull numbers out of thin air.