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#1 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:06 AM

I'm not sure if we have a thread anywhere dedicated to talking about food type markets, sticking market into the search is too common to find less than 200 threads.

Victoria too small for Granville Island type food market, consultant tells city

http://www.timescolo...9568/story.html


By Bill Cleverley, Times Colonist
January 27, 2010 8:43 AM


[...]

#2 victorian fan

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:34 AM

Remember when Value Village was a market? That didn't last long.

#3 G-Man

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:08 AM

There was also one where the Laser Tag is now on View.

I tend to agree about the population, though throw about 2000 more people downtown and I would expect a market to be supportable. It would depend on what the purpose of the market. Granville Island is successful because it is not just a market, it is an entertainment destination. There live theatre, street theatre, restaurants a food court, a ton of stores and there is also a market. I would bet that if you look at the sq ft dedicated to a market at granville island it would be something like 20%.

If you just want a food market for locals and not a destination for tourists than you need more people.

If you decked out the Inner harbour parking lots with big airy buildings for a market and other stuff than it would most likely work out.

The city needs to decide the purpose of the market before trying decide whether it would work or not.

#4 Holden West

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:14 AM

Ross Crockford discusses the history here.

Photo of original market where Centennial Square is today.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#5 aastra

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:26 AM

The city needs to decide the purpose of the market before trying decide whether it would work or not.


I'll never understand this Victorian obsession with Granville Island. It seems like officialdom stews for years at a time about how to replicate Granville Island in downtown Victoria. Why? And why does it have to be downtown? Granville Island itself isn't even downtown. I just don't understand what's driving it, and how the core assumptions ever came about. In a lot of ways it reminds me of the mid-block walkway issue.

Do they not realize that Granville Island's evolution happened along with the evolution of the False Creek area? If you want good things to happen then encourage the natural evolution of your city's districts so that good things (uniquely Victorian good things) will arise on their own.

In other words, it's silly to observe a good thing that's happening in some other place and then try to scheme up a way to arbitrarily insert a copy of that good thing somewhere in your own city.

There's really something wrong at the heart of it all. If you've been paying attention for the past several years, then you know that Victoria would be a much better place if uniquely Victorian things (Coho, floatplanes, lawn bowling club, Johnson Street Bridge) were eliminated and rip-offs of stuff from other places were inserted instead. At least that's what officialdom seems to think.

#6 Holden West

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:29 AM

Here's a key quote from Crockford's article:

Martin Barnett, who had a stall for his Rising Star bakery at Store Street, says the Harbour market failed because vendors fled the increasing rents. “People can’t pay $40 a square foot to sell fruits and vegetables.


There have been innumerable letters to the editor, reports to City Council, petitions, proposals begging for a market. It could be the greatest thing for downtown but if the numbers don't add up it can't happen without a subsidy of some kind.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#7 aastra

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:36 AM

Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Meanwhile we've got the Wharf Street parking lots, the north part of the old town, the Rock Bay shore, the Vic West warehouse site, the roundhouse site, and most of Dockside Green and the Railyards sitting empty. Not to mention the enormous potential remaining in Harris Green.

Your basement is unfinished, your backyard is overgrown, your deck is falling apart...but your neighbour has put up a new birdfeeder so let's start worrying about birdfeeders.

#8 aastra

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:20 AM

If by "Granville Island" we mean a self-contained commercial/recreational district close to downtown that complements downtown, then the Songhees should have been it. If the streets had been narrow and if there had been commercial units on the ground floor of every building, and if the original marina had happened as envisioned...voila. Something like an urban version of Mattick's Farm on the downtown waterfront.

#9 pseudotsuga

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:59 PM

^sounds very nice!

#10 martini

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:42 PM

I used to work at one of the businesses where Value Village is now. They had a good thing going, but the rent became impossible. Many friendships were made and had a nice atmosphere.

What I want to know is...what did this consultant cost us?!

#11 goke

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:27 AM

Even an indoor Saturday market that ran through the winter would be fantastic. I was in Halifax last month and their Sat. market was great- tons of local food and craft suppliers from NS and live lobster for $5 a lb. I'd love to see something like that here.

When did that Value Village market run? I remember it vaguely- sometime in the mid 1980's?

#12 Bernard

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:42 AM

Having been to the various farmer's market in this region, the problem with any Granville Island type market for this area is the lack of vendors.

We have no market garden farms large enough to supply a market. We have very few small scale food processors that could operate in a Granville Island Market setting.

This could very well be a chicken and egg thing, if we have it, they will come. Though one big difference between here and the Lower Mainland is that the Lower Mainland attracts a lot of suppliers from the Fraser Valley and the interior. We do not have have the same sort of supplier availability in the island. The Cowichan valley is the only location with possible suppliers.

#13 victorian fan

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 05:41 PM

Even an indoor Saturday market that ran through the winter would be fantastic. I was in Halifax last month and their Sat. market was great- tons of local food and craft suppliers from NS and live lobster for $5 a lb. I'd love to see something like that here.

When did that Value Village market run? I remember it vaguely- sometime in the mid 1980's?


April 1988 Value Village opened.

#14 manuel

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:21 PM

We do not have have the same sort of supplier availability in the island. The Cowichan valley is the only location with possible suppliers.


Here's a couple that could do it:

Dan's Farms
Le Coteau
Salt Spring Island Cheeseworks
Kildara
Village Farm Market (re-located)

there's many more that could handle the volume - my bigger issue with this is would enough people go to purchase goods. Having been to the various markets in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle and elsewhere, they need to be immediately adjacent to downtown in a high foot traffic area. Where would this be in Victoria. Best spot is somewhere near Fort and Douglas - could work quite well on Broad near City Hall as well.
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#15 victorian fan

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:19 AM

When Market Square first opened, there were some market stalls.
That didn't last long either.

#16 Baro

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 11:16 AM

A semi-permanent market in Centennial square might do ok. Just cut the red tape and make fees almost free and people will find a way to make a profit. No one uses the square, just tell vendors "go nuts" with only the most basic of health and retail laws and you'll see a vibrant market in no time. But of course that would never happen because people would cry bloody murder that people are MAKING MONEY on public land. If we want an outdoor market, lower the costs and hassle until it's attractive for a outdoor market to appear.
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#17 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 11:22 AM

A semi-permanent market in Centennial square might do ok. Just cut the red tape and make fees almost free and people will find a way to make a profit. No one uses the square, just tell vendors "go nuts" with only the most basic of health and retail laws and you'll see a vibrant market in no time. But of course that would never happen because people would cry bloody murder that people are MAKING MONEY on public land. If we want an outdoor market, lower the costs and hassle until it's attractive for a outdoor market to appear.


I'm not going to scream bloody murder, but why should we give free land for people to sell, when next door at 7-11 they sell food and pay a whopping piece of tax every year. Let's just ease zoning somewhere if required for a public-sector operator to come in and make a market.

#18 D.L.

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 12:13 PM

why should we give free land for people to sell [their wares?]

Because as citizens, public land is their land - they own it.

Land is land anyways, who can stop anyone from doing what they want on it?

#19 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:00 PM

Because as citizens, public land is their land - they own it.

Land is land anyways, who can stop anyone from doing what they want on it?


OK, so is it OK for me to sell used cars on Yates street up and down the block, as long as I plug the meters for them all? Of course on Sunday, I'll have the whole block for free.

#20 D.L.

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:09 PM

There is a difference between contributing to society and being a nuisance.

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