178 replies to this topic

[todd]

Royal Oak is starting foot golf next month as well.

If they are playing this at coastal golf courses would explain the mystery in the floaty feet thread.

[nagel]

It's memberships that are the revenue king. I had a look at Gorge's recent financials. Green fees were less than 15% if I recall and memberships were over 70. Pro shop loses money and clubhouse I think does too.

[AllseeingEye]

You gotta meet better people.......

True....the rugby crowd isn't terribly genteel by comparison....

 

.....OTOH golf club members will never know the innate thrill of wildly inebriated and blindfolded "retrieve a dead cod with your teeth from the bottom of an oak barrel with your hands tied behind your back" competitions either.....

[lanforod]

It's memberships that are the revenue king. I had a look at Gorge's recent financials. Green fees were less than 15% if I recall and memberships were over 70. Pro shop loses money and clubhouse I think does too.

 

Golf courses need to adjust. Golfing is declining a bit, but even more, club membership is really declining. I know a lot of golfers, but very, very few that are club members. The golfers I know want the flexibility to play different courses, and don't want the monthly dues and high costs associated with membership, they just want to golf. Highland Pacific does it the right way - they offer a relatively cheap HP club package that will attract the casual golfer.

[nagel]

Golf courses need to adjust. Golfing is declining a bit, but even more, club membership is really declining. I know a lot of golfers, but very, very few that are club members. The golfers I know want the flexibility to play different courses, and don't want the monthly dues and high costs associated with membership, they just want to golf. Highland Pacific does it the right way - they offer a relatively cheap HP club package that will attract the casual golfer.

Totally agree.

 

I was junior captain at Gorge.  As a junior I paid about 200-300 for a yearly membership.  It was so cheap I was a member simultaneously at Gorge and at Cedar Hill, and there was a dozen more like me.  Then you go to school and you're an "intermediate", which means you pay about double that.  Not going to break the bank.  As soon as you're done school, it's either be a full-out member or you're done.  I tried to do it for a while but couldn't justify it, either in $$$ (soon became $300 a month) or time commitment (you'd have to play a good 6-8 rounds a month to make it worthwhile - I actually like my wife and family and want to spend time with them, and not run off golfing twice every weekend).

 

There are no memberships for semi-competitive golfers that want to play only 1-2 times a month.  They have to go into green fees only and then they aren't members.  That's not what I'm interested in, because I miss the interclubs etc.  So instead of Gorge getting say $750 out of me per year to maybe play 10 rounds a year, they get zero and I only play once a year (and not at Gorge).  That's why they don't have hardly anyone between the ages of 22-40 at the club, and they aren't unique in that.

Edited by nagel, 17 February 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[lanforod]

Totally agree.

 

I was junior captain at Gorge.  As a junior I paid about 200-300 for a yearly membership.  It was so cheap I was a member simultaneously at Gorge and at Cedar Hill, and there was a dozen more like me.  Then you go to school and you're an "intermediate", which means you pay about double that.  Not going to break the bank.  As soon as you're done school, it's either be a full-out member or you're done.  I tried to do it for a while but couldn't justify it, either in $$$ (soon became $300 a month) or time commitment (you'd have to play a good 6-8 rounds a month to make it worthwhile - I actually like my wife and family and want to spend time with them, and not run off golfing twice every weekend).

 

There are no memberships for semi-competitive golfers that want to play only 1-2 times a month.  They have to go into green fees only and then they aren't members.  That's not what I'm interested in, because I miss the interclubs etc.  So instead of Gorge getting say $750 out of me per year to maybe play 10 rounds a year, they get zero and I only play once a year (and not at Gorge).  That's why they don't have hardly anyone between the ages of 22-40 at the club, and they aren't unique in that.

 

That's exactly right. 

I'm actually surprised that Royal Oak is doing poorly, considering how cheap their green fees are. The course is quite nice, a decent challenge for the average golfer, not so ridiculously easy like Mt. Doug, yet pretty much the same price. So I'd have thought it would pickup a lot of those golfers who just want to golf without paying huge membership fees (and an annual pass there isn't that much, as I recall). I wonder if the issue is something other than financial.

[VicHockeyFan]

Most of the course is ALR land.  Only the holes sandwiched between the townhouses is not.

 

[LJ]

 

There are no memberships for semi-competitive golfers that want to play only 1-2 times a month.  They have to go into green fees only and then they aren't members.  That's not what I'm interested in, because I miss the interclubs etc.  So instead of Gorge getting say $750 out of me per year to maybe play 10 rounds a year, they get zero and I only play once a year (and not at Gorge).  That's why they don't have hardly anyone between the ages of 22-40 at the club, and they aren't unique in that.

Well at Bear Mountain there are lots of 22-40 year olds playing. Every weekend is crowded with them. I'm guessing there are at least 50 members that are in that age parameter.

Plus during  the summer there are lots and lots of golf junket type groups playing and also lots of wedding parties playing a couple of rounds. (While they still have their freedom I guess  )

[lanforod]

Well at Bear Mountain there are lots of 22-40 year olds playing. Every weekend is crowded with them. I'm guessing there are at least 50 members that are in that age parameter.

Plus during  the summer there are lots and lots of golf junket type groups playing and also lots of wedding parties playing a couple of rounds. (While they still have their freedom I guess  )

 

Bear Mountain is not representative of the bulk of the golfing crowd. It's overpriced for that, especially for casual green fee golfers.

[LJ]

Bear Mountain is not representative of the bulk of the golfing crowd. It's overpriced for that, especially for casual green fee golfers.

Well it will be cheaper this year. The Mountain course will be the "members preferred course" available to the public at an increased price while the Valley course will be the cheaper public course, I think it is $55 right now to play.

[jonny]

Bear Mountain's problem is it's so effin difficult.

Oh, and you can't walk it.

Royal Colwood is still the best track in town. They picked up quite a few members at their 100 year anniversary membership drive a couple of years ago.

Edited by jonny, 18 February 2016 - 08:38 PM.

[nagel]

I don't really understand the point if you aren't walking. Obviously when you have mobility issues that's fine but as a 34 year old, it feels pretty silly to sit in a cart for 5 hours and swing a club ~40 times. I could walk Bear no problem. If they let you do a 1/2 marathon around it they should let people walk.

[VicHockeyFan]

I don't really understand the point if you aren't walking. Obviously when you have mobility issues that's fine but as a 34 year old, it feels pretty silly to sit in a cart for 5 hours and swing a club ~40 times. 

 

You must have some impressive golf scores!  Oh, unless you count the putt as not "swinging".

[nagel]

No putting doesn't count. In the 80s now but I was a 5 cap back in the day of the Y2K scare.

[VicHockeyFan]

No putting doesn't count. In the 80s now but I was a 5 cap back in the day of the Y2K scare.

 

Oh, that's pretty decent.  

[lanforod]

I don't really understand the point if you aren't walking. Obviously when you have mobility issues that's fine but as a 34 year old, it feels pretty silly to sit in a cart for 5 hours and swing a club ~40 times. I could walk Bear no problem. If they let you do a 1/2 marathon around it they should let people walk.

 

The problem with courses defined as "can't walk it" is usually a time issue. Sure, you can walk any course, technically. Can you complete a round in under 5 hours walking a mountain course? It's tough, especially for the older golfers.

Another thing that these courses often have is large gaps between holes that would take 10 minutes to walk, but 2 minutes by cart. It's the nature of a course on a mountain (The Falls in Chilliwack is another example of this).

[nagel]

The problem with courses defined as "can't walk it" is usually a time issue. Sure, you can walk any course, technically. Can you complete a round in under 5 hours walking a mountain course? It's tough, especially for the older golfers.

Another thing that these courses often have is large gaps between holes that would take 10 minutes to walk, but 2 minutes by cart. It's the nature of a course on a mountain (The Falls in Chilliwack is another example of this).

It doesn't help that my brother in law smokes so sharing a cart I take a couple weeks off my life.

[lanforod]

It doesn't help that my brother in law smokes so sharing a cart I take a couple weeks off my life.

I totally get that!

[LJ]

Bear Mountain's problem is it's so effin difficult.

Oh, and you can't walk it.

Royal Colwood is still the best track in town. They picked up quite a few members at their 100 year anniversary membership drive a couple of years ago.

If you find it difficult use the "play it forward" philosophy. Move up to a tee box commensurate with your ability. I see a lot of visitors start out on the Grizzly tees, then move up to the blacks, and by the time we get to the back nine they are hitting from the whites. Nothing wrong with that, but they should have started on the whites.

[LJ]

I don't really understand the point if you aren't walking. Obviously when you have mobility issues that's fine but as a 34 year old, it feels pretty silly to sit in a cart for 5 hours and swing a club ~40 times. I could walk Bear no problem. If they let you do a 1/2 marathon around it they should let people walk.

There are several members who walk the course, as long as you can keep up with the pace of play nobody has a problem with it. When they played the Telus Skins game the pro's all walked. If you are playing with your brother in law let him ride and you can walk.