121 replies to this topic

[Bob Fugger]

What I can't handle, and struggle to understand, is why someone would set up a thread for me just to publicly dress me down. It started in the (your) first two posts and continues. I don't really care what you think about me - or that I don't happen to appeal to you - I care that your comments will always remain on the Web under my name. That's unfair to me and my family.

I take it seriously that layers have started to form....I'm seen as a willing partcipant to a mud wrestling competion for trying to stand up for myself; I'm accused of reminding someone of an ex wife (which I don't think was meant as a compliment) and now you claim concern for my 'psychological' well being. I sign onto VV to read and talk about politics. I shouldn't have to defend myself against a man who doesn't know me. I'd appreciate some assistance from a moderator now in asking for this to stop, please.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but I hadn't written anything in this thread since early afternoon yesterday - and quite purposely. To be honest, I had actually started to feel a bit bad for Sue for not being able to save herself from herself. With each response, she just keep driving home how ill-tempered she is to be a municipal councillor.

But, she clearly wasn't satisfied with that. She responded not once, but twice, almost twelve hours apart. The discourse had moved on to "issues," which I thought she was raring to discuss. Nope, because she wasn't about to let ol' Bob have the last word: which is quite unbecoming of a potential city councillor.

I set up this thread because Sue is a candidate in the Oak Bay election and I found it curious that she, as a resident of Fairfield, was running in Oak Bay, after making a big stink on this very forum about extra-jurisdictional candidates in the recent Victoria byelection. Isn't that with this forum is for? She chose to engage me on that (which by the way, she still has never really answered) and turned it into the "Bob is being mean to me" show. All of my observations and critiques are based on her politics and what she's written on here. I don't think that I've taken any personal, ad hominem shots.

You know what, I do agree with her on one point: perhaps a moderator ought to step in, but to save her from continuing to sabotage herself.

[Mike K.]

Sue, if you wouldn't mind, I know a lot of people are wondering how you envision Oak Bay will deal with the infrastructure deficit, and Rob Randall brought up a good point about the OB PD's "no call too small" policy. As a resident of Victoria you're probably well aware of the discrepancy in response times between residents on opposite sides of the same street?

[Sue Woods]

You seem to be somewhat selective in what issues you will address. For example, what is your response to the observation that you look like a hypocrite relative to your negative statements last year about candidates who run in municipalities that they don't live in? How do you defend asking to make financial decisions in a municipality that you don't live in or pay taxes in?

I think you are giving people a pretty good idea of what kind of councillor you would be and it's not positive.

Regarding being selective in what I will or won't address, that's just not the case really. I joined VV in 2008 - and have posted many things along the way to do with my views/observations of municipal politics. And I've never shyed away from a debate, being that I enjoy learning from other's ideas and solutions. And believe it or not, I think people can disgaree without being disagreeable. I recognize that I came out of this recent match with Mr Fugger looking ill-tempered - but how does one respond to being publicly mocked and poked with good temper? I think it counts that I did not react in cowardly silence. It has been upsetting and embarrassing for me and I wish this thread had never been started in the first place.

Also, I have been upfront in stating that I live outside the OB boundary - and never tried to hide that fact (it's even in my brochure), which I think speaks to honestly and courage. One of my concerns last time about non-residency was that a candidate, running on a platform of transparency, did not readily disclose the fact that they lived elsewhere to Victoria voters.

I will be at all-candidate meetings and answer all questions posed. For now I feel satisfied that my previous posts on VV (re politics) sufficiently portray me as open-minded, curious, and hopefully intelligent. Beyond that, I don't have all the answers about how to make our communites better then they are - and there will be many issues that arise over the course of the next three years. The best anyone can do as a municipal councillor is to consider all views, work towards concensus, and make good decisions with an eye to the future. I would take that responsibilty seriously.

In addition, my husband and I are presently looking to buy a home in OB so the issue of whether I live 3 city blocks away - or inside the area - will not be an issue by next spring or summer.

[Sue Woods]

Sue, if you wouldn't mind, I know a lot of people are wondering how you envision Oak Bay will deal with the infrastructure deficit, and Rob Randall brought up a good point about the OB PD's "no call too small" policy. As a resident of Victoria you're probably well aware of the discrepancy in response times between residents on opposite sides of the same street?

Thats a fair question Mike (and Rob) and tonight I'll take some time to respond. Just heading out for a day of business but will look foward to discussing and hearing your views as well. Cheers, Sue

[Sue Woods]

Sue, if you wouldn't mind, I know a lot of people are wondering how you envision Oak Bay will deal with the infrastructure deficit, and Rob Randall brought up a good point about the OB PD's "no call too small" policy.

Maintaining a small police force that's accessible and can respond quickly to large and smaller calls lends to the quality-of-life in Oak Bay and works well for residents. Therefore, I don't think there is any interest at all in joining a regional force. However, there may some interest in sharing the 911 phone system as increased CRD regionalization becomes more of a reality in the future. That'll be up to the residents and require discussion and consensus.

As for ageing infrastructure, the solution would be working with senior levels of government to explore/find cost sharing opportunities, then making sure projects are well-managed for affordability and endurance.

[VicHockeyFan]

Maintaining a small police force that's accessible and can respond quickly to large and smaller calls lends to the quality-of-life in Oak Bay and works well for residents.

A family of five residing in Oak Bay was slaughtered, killed one by one, perhaps in part because the tiny OB force was busy driving drunk high-school girls home from a house-party.

That doesn't sound like they responded quickly to this "large" emergency inside their borders.

[VicHockeyFan]

Maintaining a small police force that's accessible and can respond quickly to large and smaller calls lends to the quality-of-life in Oak Bay and works well for residents.

Not for these residents:

Communication failures among 3 police forces


Wednesday's testimony is also aimed at providing information that will shed light on communications problems during the incident and the difficulties of having three separate police forces dealing with a violent, disturbing crime.

A series of calls between Oak Bay, Saanich and Victoria police were played at the court Wednesday. All three police departments responded to the 911 call and were on the crime scene.

It's clear from the audio there was confusion between the three police forces as to who was in charge of the operation.

At one point, an officer is heard saying to another: "This is ugly. It doesn't look like anyone's taking control at all."

Oak Bay police were delayed because they were transporting drunk teens to their families, the inquest heard.

Thirty-five minutes after the 911 call was made, a Saanich police officer was the first to enter the home. He found a broken window and muddy footprints on the floor.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ay-inquest.html

[skeptic]

Every police force has screwed up at some time or another. One incident is no reason to overhaul the organization of the forces. The real issue is why were our police forces (Victoria, Saainich or Oak Bay) unwilling to enter the premises for several hours after the 911 calls were made? The Oak Bay cops were certainly on the scene by then.

Recently, a neighbor of mine was burgled (probably by the notorious "2nd floor burgler" who was recently arrested and will no doubt be released to continue his spree "on a promise to appear"). The police attended, responding to the alarm, and the owner showed up almost immediately as well. The cops (two of them) refused to enter the premises until another patrol car arrived--20 minutes later--by which time the burgler had escaped via the back yard. Now THAT is stupid. After all, the cops have tazers and guns--do they really think confronting a burgler required more than 2 cops?

[Sue Woods]

A family of five residing in Oak Bay was slaughtered, killed one by one, perhaps in part because the tiny OB force was busy driving drunk high-school girls home from a house-party.

That doesn't sound like they responded quickly to this "large" emergency inside their borders.

That's not something that happens very often and everyone familiar with the story was devastated by the family violence and confusion around emergency response. It was certainly a wake-up call for police services in the CRD, and all of us. A review was done to determine how that type of situation could have been dealt with differently, and I assume that the new CRD major crime integrated unit will be on top of things if such a situtation were to occur again.

For over 80 years amalgamation has been discussed in this area, and while it makes logical sense for a number of reasons, the fact is that we are 13 municiplaties at this time and maybe forever. Local government also has an appeal - and my point is that OB residents are satisfied with their polices services, in spite of horrrible tragedies like this that can and do occur anywhere.

[Bob Fugger]

Hmmmm, so it sounds like more police integration is OK, but so is a local neighbourhood force that chaffeurs home the drunken youth of the well-heeled elite. Amalgamation is good, but so is preserving municipal government structures for what is essentially a glorified neighbourhood. I prefer the colour black, but I also prefer white. This is great stuff!

[Mike K.]

Let's not forget Hannah Madgen who was struck and killed by a taxi driver. Her family alleged the Oak Bay Police mishandled the case and couldn't convict the driver.

And the province recently denied an audit of the OBPD "despite allegations of racial and sexual discrimination, improper promotions practices and several high-profile mismanaged police investigations." Link.

There's clearly more to the OBPD than meets the eye.

As for ageing infrastructure, the solution would be working with senior levels of government to explore/find cost sharing opportunities, then making sure projects are well-managed for affordability and endurance.

That could be, but from what I've heard, residents are starting to become concerned that council will drastically increase taxes to pay for the municipality's share of the infrastructure projects. Should Oak Bay diversify its tax base in order to offload some of the tax burden off of residents and onto businesses?

[Sue Woods]

Hmmmm, so it sounds like more police integration is OK, but so is a local neighbourhood force that chaffeurs home the drunken youth of the well-heeled elite. Amalgamation is good, but so is preserving municipal government structures for what is essentially a glorified neighbourhood. I prefer the colour black, but I also prefer white. This is great stuff!

We don't live in a black and white world. We do live in a big city full of small towns.

[Sue Woods]

That could be, but from what I've heard, residents are starting to become concerned that council will drastically increase taxes to pay for the municipality's share of the infrastructure projects. Should Oak Bay diversify its tax base in order to offload some of the tax burden off of residents and onto businesses?

I am running as a first-term OB candidate. I have no background information so that's a question that I'm simply not able to answer.

[Sue Woods]

PS For Mike

I'm doing my best to respond to everyone. I also come here to read other people's views, as well, so it's a conversation that I'm happy to participate in as best I can. Thx.

[Bob Fugger]

We don't live in a black and white world. We live in a big city full of small towns. Do you have a question regarding issues that you believe are of concern to the residents of Oak Bay's 6,000 households?

I was just musing aloud - but OK, allow me to rephrase to be more direct: How can you be for a greater focus on regional policing but also be for a municipal police force that spends most of its time handing out speeding tickets in the 40 km/h strech of Henderson Road and rescuing stranded kitties? How can you be for amalgamation but then state that "local government also has an appeal," which sounds like an endorsement for the continued existance of silly little polities like Oak Bay?

I was always taught that when a politician stands for everything, they really don't stand for anything at all.

...and my point is that OB residents are satisfied with their polices services, in spite of horrrible tragedies like this that can and do occur anywhere.

Oh thanks for the morning giggle with this particular bon mot!

[Sue Woods]

I was just musing aloud - but OK, allow me to rephrase to be more direct: How can you be for a greater focus on regional policing but also be for a municipal police force that spends most of its time handing out speeding tickets in the 40 km/h strech of Henderson Road and rescuing stranded kitties? How can you be for amalgamation but then state that "local government also has an appeal," which sounds like an endorsement for the continued existance of silly little polities like Oak Bay?

I was always taught that when a politician stands for everything, they really don't stand for anything at all.

Oh thanks for the morning giggle with this particular bon mot!

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I took your parking space once at Fairfield Thriftys, or perhaps we were married in another lifetime and I left you for a younger richer warrier. Perhaps I owe you an apology and didnt even know it!

Therefore I hope you'll accept the gift of having the 'last word', along with unlimited access to a site you set up to rain on my parade.

[Bob Fugger]

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I took your parking space once at Fairfield Thriftys, or perhaps we were married in another lifetime and I left you for a younger richer warrier. Perhaps I owe you an apology and didnt even know it!

Therefore I hope you'll accept the gift of having the 'last word', along with unlimited access to a site you set up to rain on my parade.

Well done, madam! You finally called me out on the personal vendetta that I'm waging against you! Please allow me a moment to twiddle my moustache like a silent film villain before I reveal to you the heinous plot I have dreamt up against you! MUHAHAHAHA!!

You see, you didn't respect that I had the right of way at the four way stop @ St. Charles and Rockland last Tuesday and now I'm finally giving you your comeuppance - well deduced! Your positions and platform are totally unassailable and extremely well reasoned, so by default it must be me making it personal!

Oh, but you've figured me out. I should just stick to tying helpless damsels to the railroad track.

[Sparky]

Check please!

[Bingo]

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I took your parking space once at Fairfield Thriftys, or perhaps we were married in another lifetime and I left you for a younger richer warrier. Perhaps I owe you an apology and didnt even know it!

Only 56 posts and you're already in love?

[SamCB]

Coming into this thread as an outsider with no previous knowledge of any interaction between Sue and anyone else on this board, I have to ask Bob- what exactly is your problem with her? If you simply find her unfit to hold a place on Oak Bay Council, then you've stated your opinion. Why are you waging a war here? Do you speak to people like that in real life?

Clearly there is something else going on here. Let's have the whole story. What makes publicly denigrating this candidate worth your time?