3669 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

The 9,500 are what the Government has paid for, the 7,481 are what are actually being built! Problem solved!

[Mike K.]

There are just under 9,500 units of condos and rentals under construction, but the government is reporting 7,481. When was the last time a government under-reported a statistic beneficial to them? But it happens all the time, with CMHC housing data.

[Tony]

The date of the article was  Jan 17 2024 and the numbers were for the starts in 2023.

[Mike K.]

The under construction data was current as of the time of that article in January of 2024. And there were even more units underway then, than there are now.

 

As a note for courtesy, it's important to identify article dates when posting links if the article date is way out of sync with the discussion taking place.

[Nparker]

Average house prices by state in the US.

In BC, the average house price in US dollars is around $728,000. Only California is more expensive, and they have Silicon Valley incomes to offset some of that cost.

[Mike K.]

Tennessee has gone bananas, lots of people moving there from various parts of the states over the relative freedoms and cost of living there.

The mid-west is gorgeous.

[Victoria Watcher]

BC Housing defines housing as affordable when paying for it takes no more than 30% of one’s gross income. The mean middle income for British Columbians is $66K. Affordable housing for a person of middle income in BC should cost roughly 20K per year. Neither rent nor a mortgage payment for a middle income earner in BC should, according to these benchmarks, exceed $1,650 per month. But reality is much different. The average rent for a one-bedroom unit in Victoria in 2023 was $2,189. The average mortgage payment in Victoria in  2023 was $2.5K, far above affordability for a middle-income earner, let alone a lower-income one.

 

NDP messaging around its now-shuttered $2 billion Housing Hub program was all about generating affordable housing

 

Jack Sandor from Saanich-based housing advocacy group Homes for Living told Capital Daily the word “affordable” gets thrown around a lot in many different contexts, and the definition is often out of line with what a lower income earner could actually afford. The NDP shot themselves in the foot by describing the units created as affordable.”  

 

Last week, Michael Pistrin, vice-president of development and asset strategy for BC Housing told the Globe and Mail, “The whole intent of the Housing Hub was just to build more housing. “It was designed to create affordable rental housing and homeownership options for middle-income people. That’s not what it was touted as on the BC housing website which clearly states it was to create affordable rental housing and homeownership options.” 

 

 

https://www.capitald...d-middle-income

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 August 2024 - 01:22 AM.

[Tony]

 Is the gross family income in Victoria/Greater Victoria different from the BC average? How might that affect the definition of affordability in this area?

 

BC Housing defines housing as affordable when paying for it takes no more than 30% of one’s gross income. The mean middle income for British Columbians is $66K. Affordable housing for a person of middle income in BC should cost roughly 20K per year. Neither rent nor a mortgage payment for a middle income earner in BC should, according to these benchmarks, exceed $1,650 per month

Edited by Tony, 20 August 2024 - 09:08 AM.

[Mike K.]

The 30% figure is outdated and irrelevant, mostly. What if I want to spend more money on a nice place, and don’t care to buy expensive clothes or drink at bars? Why should my affordability be determined with a 30% general rule, if I can put aside other things to buy more house or rent a bigger place?

[Victoria Watcher]

Ya.  A person needs little for food or clothes or entertainment.  Or transportation if they live close to work.

 

A pefect life would be living near Our Place (food, showers, haircuts) in the Juliette, then maybe working for a CUPE 50 job at the City.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 August 2024 - 09:17 AM.

[Tony]

The issue here at the moment is related to how affordability is defined related to the BC housing definition and relating that to costs in Victoria region.

 

Is the mean figure for BC given as $66,000 after tax or gross? Gross is used to decide on the 30% amount. Is it per individual or per family? If it individual then a family with two employed would total  $132,000 which would affect the resulting numbers as to what is considered affordable by BC Housing for a family.

[lanforod]

Which is crappy. Generally it’s better for families not to have to have both parents working full time. But it’s a necessity now.

[Mike K.]

The $66k is gross, I’m quite certain, and that’s household income. So all parties combined.

[Mike K.]

Is the gross family income in Victoria/Greater Victoria different from the BC average? How might that affect the definition of affordability in this area?

BC Housing defines housing as affordable when paying for it takes no more than 30% of one’s gross income. The mean middle income for British Columbians[color=rgb(0,0,0)][font='trade-gothic-next'][size=5] is $66K.

Here’s more from Tony’s link:

Incomes vary widely across the United States, with some people making many times the amount that others earn. If you've ever wondered how your personal finances stack up, and what "class" your income officially puts you in, here's what you need to know.

What income do you need to be upper, middle, or lower class?
Based on 2021 data, here's what you would need to earn in order to be in each class:

Lower class: This is defined as the bottom 20% of earners. Those in the lower class have an income at or below $28,007.
Lower middle class: This is defined as individuals in the 20th to 40th percentile of household income. Earnings among this group are between $28,008 and $55,000
Middle class: The middle class is officially those whose earnings put them in the 40th to 60th percentile of household income. The income range is $55,001 to $89,744.
Upper middle class: Anyone with earnings in the 60th to 80th percentile would be considered upper middle class. Those in the upper middle class have incomes between $89,745 and $149,131.
Upper class: Finally, the upper class is the top 20% of earners and they have incomes of $149,132 or higher.

[Mike K.]

So is Tony referencing US data, but applying it to BC Housing?

[Tony]

To clarify. The link in the quoted article is not mine nor was the information in it used by me.. I was responding to the information repeated below Nd asking questions?

 

BC Housing defines housing as affordable when paying for it takes no more than 30% of one’s gross income. The mean middle income for British Columbians is $66K. Affordable housing for a person of middle income in BC should cost roughly 20K per year. Neither rent nor a mortgage payment for a middle income earner in BC should, according to these benchmarks, exceed $1,650 per month. But reality is much different. The average rent for a one-bedroom unit in Victoria in 2023 was $2,189. The average mortgage payment in Victoria in  2023 was $2.5K, far above affordability for a middle-income earner, let alone a lower-income one.

[Mike K.]

You posted it again. You’re still sourcing BC income with a link to US figures?

Your sources may not be reliable.

[Tony]

Which is crappy. Generally it’s better for families not to have to have both parents working full time. But it’s a necessity now.

On what basis can you validate that claim that it is better? Why is it a necessity? It is a choice. Like all choices there are possible consequences to be evaluated for the children and the parents. I assume that you are referring to families with children.

 

Both of my parents worked outside the home and my partner and I worked fulltime outside the home. My son and his partner also work outside the home full time. That take us back 90 plus years.

 

I think that having a parent around when children are young or having quality child care available can be better for children that both parents working full time. It is also very much the quality of parent child interaction that is important not always the amount of time.

[Tony]

I will correct it.

 

Re BC Housing definition of affordable housing.

 

BC Housing defines housing as affordable when paying for it takes no more than 30% of one’s gross income. The mean middle income  for British Columbians is $66K. Affordable housing for a person of middle income in BC should cost roughly 20K per year. Neither rent nor a mortgage payment for a middle income earner in BC should, according to these benchmarks, exceed $1,650 per month. But reality is much different. The average rent for a one bedroom apartment unit in Victoria in 2023 was $2,189. The average mortgage payment Victoria in  2023 was $2.5K, far above affordability for a middle-income earner, let alone a lower-income one.

 

Is the mean figure for BC given as $66,000 after tax or gross? Gross is used to decide on the 30% amount. Is it per individual or per family? If it individual then a family with two employed would total  $132,000 which would affect the resulting numbers as to what is considered affordable by BC Housing for a family. What is the mean  income of families in the greater Victoria and city of Victoria?

Any connections to source information would be appreciated on the actual figures. 

[lanforod]

30% is an arbitrary number in way too many ways here. It’s very dependent on each family/indivdual’s situation.
Fine as a ballpark but take it with a grain of salt for each situation.