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800 block of Yates: changes


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#41 Holden West

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 08:46 PM

Old-fashioned alleys are making a comeback in some new cities. One developer wanted to add alleys to a new urban development in the U.S. but was rejected by the City. So he took the word "alley" off the blueprints and replaced it with "jogging/cycling path" and it passed.

M0nkeyman, Victoria has some alleys between Yates and Johnson but they're mostly hidden. Does anyone have that great map of LeFevre's plan to open up the 500 block alleys? If so, start a new thread on it.
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#42 Amanday

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 10:36 AM

The one by London Drugs is bad but mostly because it deadends in a parking lot. As a pedestrian I do use that one quite often.


Me too, on my grocery store to beer store run!

#43 Rob Randall

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 10:46 AM

Yes, 819 Yates has been targetted for a walk way for a long time by the Planning Department.

It could be either

- an open air walkway
- an enclosed walkway like the Fort St. Royal Bank mall
- half and half like the Broughton to Fort Lindholm/Rohani building
- an indoor retail mall like St. Andrews
- an indoor non-retail path, perhaps with billboards or artwork (maybe like a Metro station?)
- a parkade pathway like the View St. Parkade

Whatever it is, it has to conform to [url=http://www.cpted.net/home.html:d1e97]CPTED[/url:d1e97] safety guidelines to make sure it's a safe place to enter.

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#44 Phil McAvity

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 01:00 PM

Hey people!

This has probably already been mentioned, but the height of that proposed building next to the Capitol 6 is 65.9 metres which is obviously a big improvement over the 14 story building i thought was going in there. That should make it about the same height as Astoria. :tup:
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#45 Ben Smith

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:18 PM

65.9 meters! Not bad!

#46 Mike K.

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:29 PM

Yes, 819 Yates has been targetted for a walk way for a long time by the Planning Department.

It could be either

- an open air walkway
- an enclosed walkway like the Fort St. Royal Bank mall
- half and half like the Broughton to Fort Lindholm/Rohani building
- an indoor retail mall like St. Andrews
- an indoor non-retail path, perhaps with billboards or artwork (maybe like a Metro station?)
- a parkade pathway like the View St. Parkade

Whatever it is, it has to conform to [url=http://www.cpted.net/home.html:db487]CPTED[/url:db487] safety guidelines to make sure it's a safe place to enter.


Oh good grief...can we please stop with these walkways? Is it really that difficult to walk the extra 10 meters to Blanshard?

For every walkway that is somewhat of a success in Victoria for the reasons outlined above there are several the misrably fail and hurt nearby buildings (crime, drug use, etc). The folks at City Hall need to recognize that these walkways are only great ideas on paper. In the real world outside of City Hall's walls, not so much.

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#47 Rob Randall

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 03:26 PM

Here is the section of the Victoria Downtown Plan that shows potential walkways.



Note that the St. Vincent de Paul building is presently mid-block.

“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#48 aastra

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 03:49 PM

Remind me again, where are these "extremely long crossings" on Douglas and Blanshard?

Anybody remember how you could cut through from Pandora to Johnson to get to the parking lot at Peacock Billiards? I believe there was a hole in the fence. You can't do that anymore. Then, after they built that office building on the corner, you could climb over the railing in the loading dock area and cut through the east side walkway. You can't do that anymore, either.

We weren't desperate for a cut-through, we were just being lazy jerks.

#49 G-Man

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:00 PM

That cut through was there until the Cental Baptist Chursh expanded I thought. Though I could be wrong. Anyways that map is funny.

There was a small article in some newspaper last week about how they are blocking the walkway through the Johnson Street Parkade for a pilot project. Safety concerns I believe.

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#50 Holden West

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 03:06 PM

It's pretty clear from that map that the City wants to put walkways all the way from Chatham down to the Humboldt Valley, whether they're needed or not, no exceptions!
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#51 Holden West

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:08 PM

I tried the Manhattan Yates to Johnson walkway last night but it was gated mid point. I never knew it went through--there's nothing to indicate that it might be publicly accesible or that it connects with Johnson. Of course there are many turns and changes in elevation and places to hide. And this is a recent one! I thought we were getting better at making these!
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#52 Rob Randall

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:17 PM

812 Yates (Capitol 6 parking lot) goes before Commitee of the Whole tomorrow at 9 A.M. The public cannot speak at this meeting but it will be interesting because of the density/height request. The Planning Department is recommending rejection.

Also on the agenda is a development permit for 1006 Wharf Street. I don't know what this is--I don't have it in my records. Is this the old Customs Building? It's not the Milestone's patio variance application.

Also, the old Bay building will be getting its heritage designation and the Dockside Annual report will be presented. I don't know if there will be any discussion on that though.

Sorry for including off topic info!

“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#53 Phil McAvity

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 05:59 AM

I tried the Manhattan Yates to Johnson walkway last night but it was gated mid point. I never knew it went through--there's nothing to indicate that it might be publicly accesible or that it connects with Johnson. Of course there are many turns and changes in elevation and places to hide. And this is a recent one! I thought we were getting better at making these!


For years after the manhattan was finished that was a convenient shortcut. I remember when i first used it, thinking what a wonderful opportunity it afforded scrotes to break in to ground floor suites or steal from people's patios, because the backs of both the manhattan and that 4-story condo building on Johnson were totally vulnerable. It's beyond me why they couldn't have kept the shortcut and simply fenced off the back of the buildings. About a hundred yards away the pacific monarch on pandora had a similar shortcut around that building until they too fenced it off. These shortcuts simply don't work since they are obviously scumbag magnets, but City Hall obviously doesn't know or care about that.

Now, back to the topic.....
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#54 aastra

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 10:37 AM

So what have we established with all of this? It seems we agree that windowless narrow corridors between buildings are undesirable and dangerous, hence why then tend to be locked off. So why does the city insist on creating them??

If you're going to demand cut-throughs, make them legitimate. Put townhouses right on the path, put commercial space right on the path...and only put them in locations where they'd actually serve some practical use.

Is that so difficult??

#55 G-Man

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:23 AM

It is the method they are doing it. They are trying to use developers to bring these "ammenities" to the city. The developer sees this as a necessary but not important element to add to the design process at the end stage. If the city is serious about it they would buy the Rights Of Way in advance and then get the developer to consider the RoW at the initial design stage.

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#56 m0nkyman

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 04:53 PM

The setback sucks, the finishing sucks, the design sucks, the height sucks, everything about it sucks.


Here's some examples:
[url=http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00037-1.JPG:4bf7c][/url:4bf7c]
[url=http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00038-1.JPG:4bf7c][/url:4bf7c]
[url=http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00039-1.JPG:4bf7c][/url:4bf7c]
[url=http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00040-1.JPG:4bf7c][/url:4bf7c]

#57 D.L.

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 04:57 PM

that parking entrance is horrible, and the way it leaves the side of the neighbouring building exposed. I know a parking garage entrance is necessary but there must be much better ways of doing it. Not setting it back so far would help.



The other photos of the finishing I am fine with. Not every building needs to be a Shoal Point.

#58 Holden West

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:04 PM

Other developers finish their buildings beautifully at the ground floor--many of them much smaller than the Wave. Why should Hamilton get a free pass? Yes, every building needs to be Shoal Point. Quality finishing doesn't have to be luxurious or expensive. In fact it can be cheaper. For instance, ceramic tile is beautiful, cheap, graffiti resistant and doesn't have to be repainted constantly like concrete.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#59 m0nkyman

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:14 PM

[url=http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00039-1.JPG:c3b5a][/url:c3b5a]

If we're going to accept crap like this, then we're willing to put up with anything! And this is what's been left facing the street, imagine the corners cut inside. I wouldn't accept this in my home. I'd be calling the contractors back to fix that corner....It's been left unfinished.

If we're going to be seen as something more than tower boosters, then we have to crucify the developers who do bad work, as much as we support and praise the people who do good.

The Wave is an attractive building from the second floor up. It's like the first floor was done by a completely different group of architects and contractors... with completely different budgets. :cry:

#60 D.L.

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:28 PM

If we're going to be seen as something more than tower boosters, then we have to crucify the developers who do bad work, as much as we support and praise the people who do good.

I'm someone who has been involved in building construction and maintenance to some degree, and as long as something works that's usually where my interest stops. Making it look pretty can be someone else's job. If by unfinished you mean that spot could leak then ya that's bad and it will catch up and bite someone eventually.

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