11042 replies to this topic

[rjag]

Perhaps what the best thing to do is to start counting bicycles along Fort Street now.

The Cactus patio could be very helpful in that regard

I'll sacrifice some of my time and meet you there Mike!

[Mike K.]

There we have it.

For real, should we plan another meet? The more eyes the better.

Nagel gets counted twice but Corey has to buy a few rounds.

[nagel]

I think the CRD has baselines from the annual bike count at most of the intersections in question.

Just cause I weigh twice as much as Corey doesn't mean I count as two!

[North Shore]

^ Looks like Sooke to me.

 

F@#k me, so it is! [walks away polishing imaginary grime off glasses lenses]  That's younger eyes for you!

[On the Level]

Winner - Winner - Chicken Dinner!

 

This afternoon, corner of Pandora and Government. 

 

Was Issit driving?  That might be the city special bus.  Just like the dope shops, it has special rules.

[Mike K.]

Too long.

[Cassidy]

Without bollards installed to stop vehicles from entering the bike lane through those mid-block openings, there will always be a driver from somewhere who doesn't know anything about the bike lanes, and who will pull into said bike lanes to either park, or make their turn from what they believe to be the turn lane.

 

The bikes that were headed East in the bike lane had nowhere to go. They couldn't go out onto the road over the divider, as they would be headed directly into heavy bridge traffic. They couldn't get up onto the sidewalk, as that garden/tree/sign assembly blocks that access.

The picture sort of shows it, but there was all of about 6" or 8" on either side of the bus, so no way to simply pedal past him staying in the bike lane (even though you'd be courting death the way the driver was going back and forth, up on the divider, then up onto the sidewalk).

 

It was quite the disjointed mess for the 15 or so minutes this guy spent driving his bus back and forth in the "unprotected" bike lane.

[Mike K.]

I suppose the driver had been blinded by habit. He or she has pulled up alongside the McPherson for (what may have been) decades, and suddenly there appears to be a green lane with an entry point mid-way along what is otherwise a concrete divider.

There are so many vehicles entering the bicycle lane at that intersection that it's clear there is an issue here and it's not cluelessness so much as it is confusion over what to do. And when you think about, you don't have even 20 seconds to think about it, you either go for it or you don't in the span or one or two.

[nagel]

Aren't they entering it through the buffered parking section, not through the intersections themselves?  The buffered parking is going to get bollards this month so if this is where they're entering, this issue will be solved.  

 

I get that there's some logic to putting a bollard at the intersections too but I would vote no.  It's already a tight entry and with cargo bikes or for kids, it's going to be a difficult maneuver.  Also there's a new program in town called Cycling Without Age, and I could have this totally wrong, but basically seniors who are shut ins are biked around town in a very fancy 2 seat bike.  It's a bit of a wide bike and I doubt it could get in there anymore if there was a bollard.

[Mike K.]

Right, there's where the vehicles are entering the lane I would surmise. If bollards are on the way then that'll get solved.

 

What irks me though is that we can't just do this right from day one. We have to wait for piecemeal additions, otherwise individuals are at risk. You're building this for months and you don't have the bollards ready for installation before the lanes open? Come on.

[nagel]

They're not standard bollards though.  I think they're fancy solar bollards IIRC.

 

You know this stuff happens all the time with projects, but it's more visible because it's a roadway.  With a non-standard project what would you want them to do?  Have the bike lanes closed for 3 weeks?  I suppose they really should put up something temporarily (screw down some flexible knock down bollards), but it can't be too much of a barrier because of accessibility issues.

[Mike K.]

I dunno, if even school buses are causing a major hazard along that stretch, the City screwed up. Regardless of who's at fault, clearly this aspect of the bike lane was botched.

[nagel]

I dunno, if even school buses are causing a major hazard along that stretch, the City screwed up. Regardless of who's at fault, clearly this aspect of the bike lane was botched.

I disagree.  If they're entering a section that's not 100% complete because the bollards haven't arrived, I'd stress having some patience.  Just like I'd stress patience for right turning vehicles right now and not expect VPD be out there giving tickets.

[Mike K.]

My favourite recent road works mess-up was on Catherine at Bay. The City re-routed the end of Catherine to have it turn towards Bay. But when they finished the curbs and traffic was once again permitted to enter Bay from Catherine, they neglected to install even one reflector along the curb or signage indicating that an unpainted curb would now welcome you to the end of Catherine Street if you kept going straight. At night you had absolutely zero indication that the road suddenly ended until you were literally upon the curb.

 

I had to call the city to have someone come out with a barrier. Which they did the following Monday. But it's this sort of stuff that gets people killed or injured, and we're seeing it now with an improper handling of a vulnerability along the bike lane (regardless of what the future for it holds, today it's clearly a hazard).

 

[Mike K.]

I disagree.  If they're entering a section that's not 100% complete because the bollards haven't arrived, I'd stress having some patience.  Just like I'd stress patience for right turning vehicles right now and not expect VPD be out there giving tickets.

 

How is the public supposed to know the bollards haven't arrived?

[nagel]

To be honest I don't see it as a hazard (the Pandora buffers).  I see it as a litmus test of competence to drive a vehicle.  If we have a school bus driver who cannot interpret something that is extremely obvious, I don't want him (or her) driving kids anymore without some re-testing).

 

Another point is if there's a spot that could theoretically fit a motor vehicle, at some point one will go in it.  There are some people who seem to think they can park or stop absolutely anywhere.  I routinely see trucks pulled over onto the sidewalk on Admirals so they can take a call.  Hey they got off the road, but now they've blocked the entire sidewalk.  I don't understand how someone thinks that's ok...  It's actually not hard to pull over to a side street.

[rjag]

Nagel, I have to disagree with your statement

 

To be honest I don't see it as a hazard (the Pandora buffers).  I see it as a litmus test of competence to drive a vehicle.  If we have a school bus driver who cannot interpret something that is extremely obvious, I don't want him (or her) driving kids anymore without some re-testing).

 

 

I will respectfully disagree with that statement. I interpret that if a professional driver such as a school bus driver or HandiDart driver has difficulty interpreting what is happening then there is something wrong with the design. These are professionals and if they cant figure it out at first glance, how on earth is your average driver who rarely uses that intersection supposed to sort it out in the 3-5 seconds they are faced with it.

 

These drivers have to navigate many hazards over the course of a day that the average driver (or biklyst) simply cant comprehend. Even a regular transit driver doesnt have to deal with as much as they have structured routes.

 

If anything the litmus test indicates need for immediate improvement before someone makes a mistake and someone else pays the price.

[nagel]

Nagel, I have to disagree with your statement

 

 

I will respectfully disagree with that statement. I interpret that if a professional driver such as a school bus driver or HandiDart driver has difficulty interpreting what is happening then there is something wrong with the design. These are professionals and if they cant figure it out at first glance, how on earth is your average driver who rarely uses that intersection supposed to sort it out in the 3-5 seconds they are faced with it.

 

These drivers have to navigate many hazards over the course of a day that the average driver (or biklyst) simply cant comprehend. Even a regular transit driver doesnt have to deal with as much as they have structured routes.

 

If anything the litmus test indicates need for immediate improvement before someone makes a mistake and someone else pays the price.

I'm not talking about the right turns.  I agree that they're counter-intuitive right now.  I'm talking about someone crossing a buffer that's on the other side of a marked parking zone to enter a 2 way marked bike lane, to park a bus.  That defies logic to me.

[rjag]

I'm not talking about the right turns.  I agree that they're counter-intuitive right now.  I'm talking about someone crossing a buffer that's on the other side of a marked parking zone to enter a 2 way marked bike lane, to park a bus.  That defies logic to me.

Absolutely, but if they arent from this area and dont follow local news then they wont be hyper aware of these changes which differ from anything most folks have encountered.

 

Its like me driving in the UK, entering a 3 lane roundabout for the first time at 40mph with 6-8 exits is quite thrilling and doesnt leave much time for making a safe choice. Does that make me incompetent because I've not experienced it before? No, I have to learn from it. Now amplify that initial experience by several thousand vehicles and byklists for the first few weeks, heack even pedestrians are trying to figure it out about getting to the bus stops

[nagel]

Absolutely, but if they arent from this area and dont follow local news then they wont be hyper aware of these changes which differ from anything most folks have encountered.

 

Its like me driving in the UK, entering a 3 lane roundabout for the first time at 40mph with 6-8 exits is quite thrilling and doesnt leave much time for making a safe choice. Does that make me incompetent because I've not experienced it before? No, I have to learn from it. Now amplify that initial experience by several thousand vehicles and byklists for the first few weeks, heack even pedestrians are trying to figure it out about getting to the bus stops

Right, and I recall my own fear driving a stick on the wrong side of the road in a 3 lane roundabout in Cork, but that's not the same thing as literally parking on top of two diamond bike symbols that you only accessed through a very tight opening that was buffered by paint as a parking zone.  So he messed up by a) crossing the paint and entering the bike lane, b) continuing to drive down the bike lane and c) parking on top of these symbols.  It's astounding to me.

 

Anyways it did make for a funny photo.