467 replies to this topic

[lanforod]

The fairly new (5 years) Canadian Tire on Grandview highway/Skeena in Vancouver is absolutely fantastic. A Canadian Tire at the Hillside Target location would be similar, I think.

[Mike K.]

There's something afoot with the Douglas CT location, isn't there? We discussed it some time ago but nothing has emerged since.

[sebberry]

It's weird. They must be independently owned and operated, then? I couldn't see corporate stores being that bad.

 

I go to the Douglas location every once in a while because it's close to my place. The whole experience generally sucks and I am usually in a big hurry to get in and out of there.

 

I wonder if there's no policy in place for owners to update their stores? 

 

The other problem with the local stores is that they're small, and with so much stuff there's just not enough room.

 

The one in Broadmead is a little better but it still feels like one of their older stores. 

[Nparker]

Canadian Tire at the Hillside location is the only even remotely possible tennant I can imagine for this space - and then I think the space is too large for them and of course there is the issue of the auto centre. Walmart will not want another location and no other retailer requires this sort of square footage (meterage?). Maybe Sears will move into the Target space and the old Sears space can be re-imagined? Of course Sears is in nearly as bad financial shape as Target so this seems pretty doubtful to me.

 

The Tillicum space will sit empty for some time I would think.

[bluefox]

This total departure is really concerning to me. And I think the blame rests on us as customers, not on the company. I won't disagree that they made lots of mistakes from the get-go, several that they never fixed, but, let's be honest -- we're not the best customers. Canadians are finicky and expect gold-plated service at dollar-store prices. Not many retailers can make that economically realistic.

 

Our concept of retail is so flawed that, combined with our ingrained nature of taking disturbing pleasure in watching big companies wither and die, especially American ones, I really think we deserve what's happening here. It's awful that 18,000 people are out of a job as a result. Oh, and you've got one less choice on where to shop.

[Mr Cook Street]

This total departure is really concerning to me. And I think the blame rests on us as customers, not on the company. I won't disagree that they made lots of mistakes from the get-go, several that they never fixed, but, let's be honest -- we're not the best customers. Canadians are finicky and expect gold-plated service at dollar-store prices. Not many retailers can make that economically realistic.

 

Our concept of retail is so flawed that, combined with our ingrained nature of taking disturbing pleasure in watching big companies wither and die, especially American ones, I really think we deserve what's happening here. It's awful that 18,000 people are out of a job as a result. Oh, and you've got one less choice on where to shop.

Strange that you blame the consumer for the absolute failure of Target to survive. They presented Canada with an inferior shopping experience. I only went into the Hillside store once, but it was bad. I'm not relishing it's failure, but something will rise up to take it's place. The gears of capitalism grind ever onwards.

[lanforod]

Canadian Tire at the Hillside location is the only even remotely possible tennant I can imagine for this space - and then I think the space is too large for them and of course there is the issue of the auto centre. Walmart will not want another location and no other retailer requires this sort of square footage (meterage?). Maybe Sears will move into the Target space and the old Sears space can be re-imagined? Of course Sears is in nearly as bad financial shape as Target so this seems pretty doubtful to me.

 

The Tillicum space will sit empty for some time I would think.

If Sears were in better shape, the most sense at Hillside is for Sears to go to Target, and Canadian Tire take over Sears - shouldn't be too hard to put an auto centre in on that side of the mall, and the space makes more sense.

 

The Hillside location is too small for Costco/Ikea by far, already has a grocery, too close to Uptown Walmart for another Walmart, Hudson Bay already has Mayfair and the Bay centre, Hillside already has a Winners..., there is nothing wrong with the Home Depot at Shelbourne/Mckenzie, I can't think of any other solutions beyond Canadian Tire other than possibly a RCSS - which doesn't make a ton of sense with Thrifty's next door.

[sebberry]

My guess is that the floor space will be split up to entice smaller retailers.  The malls won't want those areas to sit empty for too long and I can't think of any other retailer wanting to set up shop that would want or need that much space.

[Mr Cook Street]

Who will lead the fight to turn the Hillside Target space into a farmer's market?

[jonny]

This total departure is really concerning to me. And I think the blame rests on us as customers, not on the company. I won't disagree that they made lots of mistakes from the get-go, several that they never fixed, but, let's be honest -- we're not the best customers. Canadians are finicky and expect gold-plated service at dollar-store prices. Not many retailers can make that economically realistic.

 

Our concept of retail is so flawed that, combined with our ingrained nature of taking disturbing pleasure in watching big companies wither and die, especially American ones, I really think we deserve what's happening here. It's awful that 18,000 people are out of a job as a result. Oh, and you've got one less choice on where to shop.

 

The media coverage didn't help either. Target was in the press constantly, and it was never good news. I'd bet a lot of people were turned off before they ever stepped foot in a store because they were constantly hearing about how bad things were.

[bluefox]

Strange that you blame the consumer for the absolute failure of Target to survive. They presented Canada with an inferior shopping experience. I only went into the Hillside store once, but it was bad. I'm not relishing it's failure, but something will rise up to take it's place. The gears of capitalism grind ever onwards.

 

Ah, the same old "capitalism works, let it ride" refrain.

 

I'd understand that reply if Canadians actually, by and large, believed that, but they don't. This isn't even about capitalism.

 

You're talking as if there are an infinite number of businesses that would just willingly come up here, now that it's obvious that consumers here expect the best without paying for it. As I said, how is that remotely viable? It's not.

 

If you're a business looking to expand to Canada, this decision by Target should give you pause.

[lanforod]

Sony also announced today they are pulling their stores out of Canada. Much smaller impact, of course. There are 3 Sony stores in greater Vancouver.

 

Cabela's is a new entry to Canada. Any others?

[Baro]

People only have so much money to spend on retail, every new store is cannibalizing the business of existing ones.  Unless you offer amazingly better prices or products it's a foolish market to get into, and it's not like a bunch of minimum wage jobs are a boon to the economy.  Attracting/growing business is important, but retail is not something we need more of.  We need more jobs that provide the income to buy things retail offers.

Edited by Baro, 15 January 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Mr Cook Street]

Ah, the same old "capitalism works, let it ride" refrain.

 

I'd understand that reply if Canadians actually, by and large, believed that, but they don't. This isn't even about capitalism.

 

You're talking as if there are an infinite number of businesses that would just willingly come up here, now that it's obvious that consumers here expect the best without paying for it. As I said, how is that remotely viable? It's not.

 

If you're a business looking to expand to Canada, this decision by Target should give you pause.

 

So we should have supported their store because they deserved a chance? So I should move my shopping habits from stores I like to a store that I didn't like? Or should the government have helped them weather the first few years?

 

My reference to the gears of capitalism was mostly tongue in cheek, I am not a raging capitalist by any stretch of the imagination. Stores close, stores open. It's sad to see so many get laid off, but I hardly feel that this is an indictment of the Canadian populace.

[lanforod]

One gaff I think Target should never have made - no online presence here.

[bluefox]

So we should have supported their store because they deserved a chance? So I should move my shopping habits from stores I like to a store that I didn't like? Or should the government have helped them weather the first few years?

 

My reference to the gears of capitalism was mostly tongue in cheek, I am not a raging capitalist by any stretch of the imagination. Stores close, stores open. It's sad to see so many get laid off, but I hardly feel that this is an indictment of the Canadian populace.

 

No. No. And no.

 

All I am saying in regards to "second chances" is we tend to write a lot of businesses off after making one mistake, and never return. I don't know why that is. Obviously they needed to provide a value proposition that compelled people to go there instead of a competitor, but when customers have their fingers stuffed in their collective ears, how are they supposed to do that? Nothing is perfect, or going to be perfect, yet we expect that for some reason, and we don't seem to understand that achieving success takes time, money and effort. There is a disconnect between reality and expectation in the Canadian market, and surely we're not the only country with this problem. The difference is we refuse to admit we play a part in the turnover.

 

Now, had Target continued to make mistake after mistake, then their fate would have surely been sealed and deserved. But leaving the market completely after just two years speaks to a lot more than just the business not being viable -- it exposes the market as being unappealing and unsustainable. Again, that would give me a ton of concerns if I was thinking of expanding here.

[http]

[ snip ]  let's be honest -- we're not the best customers. Canadians are finicky and expect gold-plated service at dollar-store prices. Not many retailers can make that economically realistic.

 

Canadians have no monopoly on this trait.

[Dr. Barillas]

I enjoyed shopping at Target as it was always such a peaceful experience.  It's too bad they weren't more like their U.S. brother.

Edited by Dr. Barillas, 15 January 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[VicHockeyFan]

Let's face it, many consumers hated Target, or at least did not enjoy it, because they had visited Target USA stores and enjoyed them.

 

LOTS of Canadians go to the US frequently, so a large amount of us knew Target USA.

 

Why was Target Canada not like it's US stores?  A variety of reasons some of it is red tape and supply issues bringing stuff into Canada, some is our tax environment.

[johnk]

How can the customers be blamed? Is it their responsibility to ensure the company is profitable?

Two visits to get something advertised in the flyer and "sorry, it didn't come in". Waste of time and a big reason many Canadians eventually abandoned Zeller's. And Target was basically Zeller's with a coat of paint and a big logo.
Customers aren't responsible for supply chain incompetence or not doing proper homework about retailing in Canada.
Do Canadians really expect gold-plated service? I don't agree. Retail and food service in Canada is far from gold-plated, more like tin-plated which we are used to.

Edited by johnk, 15 January 2015 - 11:20 AM.