48 replies to this topic

[MarkoJ]

The pre-sale market has definitely changed from years prior....

Back in 2010.....


Now (Mondrian is 25% to 30% sold at time of picture below)

[pherthyl]

What does that mean?

Sales are slower now? Or developers are more confident so they are building with fewer sales?

[Holden West]

I think that was a unique situation as 834 came online just after a glut of higher end condos (Bayview, Falls etc.) came to market. 834 had a lower price point with little competition and the pre-sale suites were a real bargain and they satisfied the pent-up demand for entry-level real estate.

I think the pendulum has swung the other way and there's a lot more low to medium priced product on the market. Although some will say it's more of a buyer's market today than it was two years ago.

[Mr Cook Street]

Is there a standard discount for buying pre-sale? And is this discount decreased if the developer is catering to a lower price point product? Maybe the incentive to buy pre-sale just isn't there with these new more affordable developments.

[MarkoJ]

What does that mean?

Sales are slower now? Or developers are more confident so they are building with fewer sales?

i. Sales are a bit slower, no doubt; however, there is lot more "inventory" in terms of pre-sale options out there and that dilutes the sales from all projects. When I was looking I cross-shopped the Mondrian, Era, Promontory, and Union.

ii. I wouldn't say developers are more confident they just have chosen to go ahead, if they were all waiting for 50% sales they simply wouldn't get there.

[MarkoJ]

I think that was a unique situation as 834 came online just after a glut of higher end condos (Bayview, Falls etc.) came to market. 834 had a lower price point with little competition and the pre-sale suites were a real bargain and they satisfied the pent-up demand for entry-level real estate.

I think the pendulum has swung the other way and there's a lot more low to medium priced product on the market. Although some will say it's more of a buyer's market today than it was two years ago.

A bit of both, the Era essentially has the same product mix as the 834 and the Mondrian is all lower price point. The Promontory and Union also offer many units under 300k. And yes, definitely more of a buyer's market now.

[MarkoJ]

Is there a standard discount for buying pre-sale? And is this discount decreased if the developer is catering to a lower price point product? Maybe the incentive to buy pre-sale just isn't there with these new more affordable developments.

There is no standard discount; however, there should be a discount over an equivalent already completed unit. Why would you wait two years for something to be completed if you can buy something now for the same price? I like to see at least a 15% difference between pre-sale and equivalent completed unit.

A poor re-sale market can impact pre-sales. If re-sale prices drop the "discount" of the pre-sale disappears making it much less attractive. Given most developers run their margins around 12 to 16% there isn't a whole lot of room to adjust prices.

One phenomenon I think we will notice in the coming year is pre-sale prices holding steady during the construction process. When times were better developers were able to increase prices during construction; however, given most have low sales numbers they won't be doing that anytime soon.

[jonny]

Marko, 834 was the only show in town whereas now there are 800+ units currently under construction in the downtown core only, with others like the Duet in pre-sale mode as well. It's really not a fair comparison.

[MarkoJ]

Marko, 834 was the only show in town whereas now there are 800+ units currently under construction in the downtown core only, with others like the Duet in pre-sale mode as well. It's really not a fair comparison.

I wasn't comparing the two directly; more so, illustrating that the market has changed. Supply and demand constitute that change.

[jonny]

I wasn't comparing the two directly; more so, illustrating that the market has changed. Supply and demand constitute that change.

It certainly has changed, and IMO this is for the better. I do not have any statistics, but it appears as though we are seeing much more "affordable housing" (from the average person's perspective as opposed to being government subsidised) being built than in year's previous.

834 seemed to hit the small sweet spot of this soft market, which is at the lower end of the price spectrum, and other developer's seem to have noticed. Most of the units under construction now are "mid to lower end", which is great news for people like me who would like to put and end to the rent payments sooner rather than later.

[sebberry]

Most of the units under construction now are "mid to lower end", which is great news for people like me who would like to put and end to the rent payments sooner rather than later.

And bad news for me because all these nice new places are killing the value of older condos.

[jonny]

And bad news for me because all these nice new places are killing the value of older condos.

Get out while you still can!

[sebberry]

And move into something half the size?

[jonny]

And move into something half the size?

How about a nice concrete building that isn't having it's value killed?

[sebberry]

How about a nice concrete building that isn't having it's value killed?

Small, expensive, even more expensive if you want parking (usually). No thanks

[jonny]

Small, expensive, even more expensive if you want parking (usually). No thanks

Well then what's to complain about? Sounds like you're happy about where you live. Good for you.

All things being equal, I would prefer newer and concrete to older and wood (I'm assuming your place is wood...many older condos are).

[mysage]

Small, expensive, even more expensive if you want parking (usually). No thanks

Does anyone now what parking spaces are selling for in the buildings downtown? Do you own them outright and attach them to your title or do you use of them on a long term lease basis?

[jklymak]

^ In our building they are Limited Common Property on your title. Not sure what the premium was; for our building they were attached to certain units.

[sebberry]

Some of the parking spaces in the newer buildings are between $15,000 and $30,000.

In my building of 27 units the parking lot underneath is limited common property. Parking spots are assigned, but they're not titled.

[MarkoJ]

Does anyone now what parking spaces are selling for in the buildings downtown? Do you own them outright and attach them to your title or do you use of them on a long term lease basis?

In a number of buildings you cannot buying parking separately (Era), you rather have to select a unit that comes with parking; however, where developers have offered parking separately it has ranged between $15,750 to $35,000 per spot.

A number of buildings now are a long term lease; however, if you read the lease agreements carefully you will find that most leases expire at LATER of 99 years or the strata corporation being dissolved.

Developers are simply using leases as a tool as it gives them more flexibility on the amount of spaces they will build, moving the spaces around, etc.

Most leases allow you to assign (sell) your spot to another owner in the building.