Jump to content

      














Photo

CRD park in the Sooke hills.


  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#1 ressen

ressen
  • Member
  • 539 posts

Posted 26 November 2006 - 11:08 AM

There are about 1500 hectares of park land that is in the process of a management plan. The question is should motorized vehicles like 4x4's, quads and dirt bikes be allowed in this area. Historically this area was used by these groups. With the proximity to Victoria; If using vehicles becomes be a permitted use in the park, will it be over run?

#2 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,098 posts

Posted 26 November 2006 - 11:28 AM

I think that the amount of people using those vehicles is on the decline. So I guess a set aside area for them would be fine. I don't think that the whole area should be allowed to have them though.

I personally think that these types of vehicles dirt bikes in particular are stupid and basically used by people that have little regard for the environment if they did they would not be trying to get air off enbankments or chew through mud puddles.

ATV are a little different as I think there are some that use them for going places in the wilderness that they could not go otherwise I also think there is potential use for helping those with disabilites access more remote wilderness areas. So due to that I think I am more prone to accept their existence. I do think there should be zero tolerance to the accessing of lands that are off limits to these vehicles and the government should be confiscating vehicles that stray into sensitive ecosystems.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#3 gumgum

gumgum
  • Member
  • 7,069 posts

Posted 26 November 2006 - 11:52 AM

Keep them off the trails.
Our wildlife is stressed enough as it is.

#4 renthefinn

renthefinn
  • Member
  • 571 posts

Posted 26 November 2006 - 12:04 PM

I say we ban pedestrians, if u wanna walk that's what the city is for!

#5 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 55,269 posts

Posted 26 November 2006 - 01:51 PM

Serious offroaders comply with what is known as "Tread Lightly," http://www.treadlightly.org .

I have absolutely no problem with legit 4x4'ers going along designated 4x4 routes and exercising caution and respect for the environment. Irresponsible campers and hikers can do damage to an ecosystem, too. All it takes is some carelessness and disregard, multiplied by 500 individuals a year, and you have ruined walking trails, garbage strewn about, excessive noise and so on.

You get goofs from all sides. That's life.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#6 gumgum

gumgum
  • Member
  • 7,069 posts

Posted 26 November 2006 - 02:03 PM

It's the noise and general wear and tear that I'm concerned about.

#7 captain highliner

captain highliner
  • Member
  • 55 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 09:08 AM

This is an interesting opportunity to have input into the management plan for this new park.

Check it out:
http://www.crd.bc.ca/parks/

I have several concerns about what may happen.

I am bothered by a general trend towards an extreme preservationist position on recreation in these parks. In my opinion these parks should be about giving people the chance to interact with the natural world. That means facilitating access for those who are less able than I to hike up a steep logging road for many hours.

I agree that vehicle access should be restricted on truly sensitive sites. Keep in mind, though, that the Sooke Hills are already over 90% second and third growth forests with a long history of human use, including medium scale mining operations. The fact that these areas still can be seen as a natural wilderness is a testament to the regenerative power of natural systems, a point that preservationists choose to de-emphasize in their rhetorical war with wilderness user groups like hunters and the resource extraction industry.

Lets be clear. If you, like me, are a hunter on the southern tip of this island you face some serious problems in enjoying your way of life. Not only is sprawling suburbia eating up wildlife habitat like a cancer but locked gates on the majority private logging lands near Vic. effectively force you to travel way up island to hunt, while the deer population here is healthier than in Cowichan lake, for example.

To extremist preservationists, any human activity is by definition against nature, and must be stopped. This is BS. Humans are a part of the natural world, and recreational resource gathering activities like hunting, fishing, mushroom hunting, edible plant gathering, small scale prospecting/rock hounding and the like are some of the last best ways to preserve this connection. All except fishing are currently illegal in CRD parks because preservationists have been so effective in their lobbying efforts.

I would argue that the more people who actually use these wild places, the more likely it is that political support for urban containment boundaries and urban densification can be generated, because the connection between these things is so direct. Parks like the Sooke Hills Wilderness, which cover vast areas of uninhabited wilderness should exist to facilitate citizens' interaction with nature, not to place obsticles to it.

#8 Holden West

Holden West

    Va va voom!

  • Member
  • 9,058 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 10:20 AM

So you would be in favour of instituting hunting in CRD parks?

I'm quite certain my enjoyment of exploring CRD parks would be significantly reduced if there were bullets flying around. The other activities you mention have differing levels of impact on the environment--some practices in fact are unsustainable and harmful to the ecosystem.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#9 captain highliner

captain highliner
  • Member
  • 55 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 10:46 AM

In areas like the Sea to Sea Green belt or Sooke Hills widerness park, I don't see a compelling reason to prohibit hunting. You may not be aware of this fact, but there's a long list of Provincial parks where hunting is permitted. Hunters, all of whom have passed government mandated saftey courses, would not obstruct your ability to enjoy hiking and the like in these areas.

If you went out hiking anywhere outside of a specifically delineated area prohibited to hunting anytime in the last couple of months, chances are you were sharing the area with hunters. Did you have any near shootings? Were you even aware of their presence?

Now I'm not saying that we should alow hunting at Elk lake or in Beacon Hill Park. But what's so offensive about letting hunters use the more remote parks far from any schools, houses (BC law prohibits the discharge of a firearm within 400 metres of a dwelling) etc. during the Fall when the weather scares most other urban recreational users away.

I'm also not advocating a free for all approach to resource extraction in parks. But to prohibit the non commercial harvesting of mushrooms seems more than heavy handed.

It all comes down to one's philosophical orientation towards nature. Does it make sense to see human activity as one pole in an Earth versus Human binary opposition? Or should we be looking at how we can manage the preservation of multiple values in wilderness areas, including their role as venues for recreation, havens of biodiversity, as well as being sources and sinks for the externalized factors of economic activity.

#10 Walter Moar

Walter Moar
  • Member
  • 166 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 11:04 AM

As a hiker, I would like motorized vehicles banned. For me, the noise is the biggest issue, and the sound of motorbikes, etc, carries a long way when you're out in the middle of nowhere.

#11 captain highliner

captain highliner
  • Member
  • 55 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 11:48 AM

I'd be curious to find out how often members of this site actually go out into the wilderness and what they do there. I know there are some 4x4 enthusiasts and hikers on the forum.

The reason why I ask is that it seems to me that it's often those who spend the least amount of time in the bush that are the most eager to limit the access rights of others who spend a great deal more time out there.

I go out to the bush at least once every weekend. Lately I've been trying to bolster my family's meat supply with some of the finest free range organic meat around, mostly in the Sooke Hills and Malahat area. I do most of my hunting on foot, and own no ATVs. I do see a lot of Dirtbikers and ATVers in the areas I travel. I don't love the sound they make, but I accept that the same freedom which allows me to hunt on foot in the area allows these people to do what they want to do for recreation.

Interestingly enough, I went hiking at Oliphant Lake with my wife, 12 moth old baby and some of my environmentalist friends this past Saturday. We ran into several hunters and ATVers on the logging roads we were walking on. All of us were enjoying the snow covered woods in different ways, without causing each other too much grief. The sad part was that we were all technically breaking the law, because this was on Timberwest private land. I don't see why our activities should be criminalized, but that's what a lack of free access public land does. It makes criminals out of the people who have the greatest stake in these places.

#12 m0nkyman

m0nkyman
  • Member
  • 729 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 12:34 PM

^^ ditto that. Hunters are some of the most active environmentalists I know, because they actually spend time in the forest, and see the impact of environmental degradation first-hand.

#13 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,098 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 06:46 PM

I am not an off the path wilderness guy too much but I spend all summer and some fall and winter weekends either camping or hiking somewhere on the Island

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#14 simon

simon
  • Member
  • 37 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 08:54 PM

I've spent a bit of time exploring the sooke hills/watershed/malahat area on a mtn bike.

I think a good goal is to get as many people as possible out to appreciate & preserve areas such as this. If successful, and the park becomes similar to say East Sooke or Gowlaand Todd, hunting might become...um... less viable?

Personally, I'd love to see an extensive network of multi-use trails linking Sooke, Goldstream and Shawnigan. As is, like captain highliner, I tend to trespass.

#15 simon

simon
  • Member
  • 37 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 09:04 PM

http://www.crd.bc.ca/parks/documents/master_plan_map.pdf

#16 renthefinn

renthefinn
  • Member
  • 571 posts

Posted 28 November 2006 - 10:12 PM

As a motorized vehicle outdoor recreationalist, I think they should ban hikers from the outdoors. They're always complaining about noise and crap when man invented earplugs long ago, so if you wanna go for a walk to get away from noise, you're stupid! Earplugs can be used even in the city!

The sound of complaing about stuff caries much farther than the sound of a motorized vehicle. I'm not hearing any motorized vehicles in this thread, but it's polluted with complaining from hikers!

#17 gumgum

gumgum
  • Member
  • 7,069 posts

Posted 28 November 2006 - 10:43 PM

Umm...maybe the noise we're complaining about isn't for the benefit of us hikers, but for the benefit of the already stressed wildlife on this island.
At what point do we stop encroaching on what we take for granted?
Let's stick to the roads for the motorized vehicle and leave our forests alone.
Maybe you were being tongue and cheek, ren. I don't know.

#18 renthefinn

renthefinn
  • Member
  • 571 posts

Posted 28 November 2006 - 11:47 PM

That's it gumgum, I ban you from the outdoors, if I see you breathing any air, that I know has come from the outdoors, I will be very angry! Grrrrr....

But seriously, noise is not a problem in nature, and no, you cannot restrict motorized vehicle access to existing roadways, when the police and ICBC will not allow most recreational vehicles on the road. Hike away my friend, but I am more weary of you freaks the more I speak with you, run and hide if you hear noises in the woods! Otherwise I may be inclined to hunt for a new breed while in the woods! Haha just kidding, but give me a break, if you wanna hike there are plenty of non-motorized parks around, but I've yet to see one on the lower island that's not non-motorized.

#19 Walter Moar

Walter Moar
  • Member
  • 166 posts

Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:46 AM

if you wanna hike there are plenty of non-motorized parks around, but I've yet to see one on the lower island that's not non-motorized.

Just because you can get around the bollards doesn't make it a "motorized park" (which is an oxymoron). Maybe you're talking about different Sooke Hills, but the CRD and TLC lands do not allow motorized vehicles.

#20 ressen

ressen
  • Member
  • 539 posts

Posted 04 December 2006 - 08:20 AM

In the states there are a number of designated off road vehicular parks. The CRD should work with the various user-groups to identify and purchase an area near Victoria that would be suitable for this use. The area along the Sooke river on the east side is still private and includes some small lakes and mountain tops like Empress Mountain. There are lots of trails here and it would make a valuable addition to our parks and by getting the vehicle users on board might make it possible to purchase this land. Of course we can just let the logging company clear cut it; because surely that is much better than having a few off-road vehicles ripping up the moss and making mud puddles.

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users