CRD park in the Sooke hills.
Posted 26 November 2006 - 11:08 AM
Posted 26 November 2006 - 11:28 AM
I personally think that these types of vehicles dirt bikes in particular are stupid and basically used by people that have little regard for the environment if they did they would not be trying to get air off enbankments or chew through mud puddles.
ATV are a little different as I think there are some that use them for going places in the wilderness that they could not go otherwise I also think there is potential use for helping those with disabilites access more remote wilderness areas. So due to that I think I am more prone to accept their existence. I do think there should be zero tolerance to the accessing of lands that are off limits to these vehicles and the government should be confiscating vehicles that stray into sensitive ecosystems.
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 11:52 AM
Our wildlife is stressed enough as it is.
Posted 26 November 2006 - 12:04 PM
Posted 26 November 2006 - 01:51 PM
I have absolutely no problem with legit 4x4'ers going along designated 4x4 routes and exercising caution and respect for the environment. Irresponsible campers and hikers can do damage to an ecosystem, too. All it takes is some carelessness and disregard, multiplied by 500 individuals a year, and you have ruined walking trails, garbage strewn about, excessive noise and so on.
You get goofs from all sides. That's life.
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 02:03 PM
Posted 27 November 2006 - 09:08 AM
Check it out:
I have several concerns about what may happen.
I am bothered by a general trend towards an extreme preservationist position on recreation in these parks. In my opinion these parks should be about giving people the chance to interact with the natural world. That means facilitating access for those who are less able than I to hike up a steep logging road for many hours.
I agree that vehicle access should be restricted on truly sensitive sites. Keep in mind, though, that the Sooke Hills are already over 90% second and third growth forests with a long history of human use, including medium scale mining operations. The fact that these areas still can be seen as a natural wilderness is a testament to the regenerative power of natural systems, a point that preservationists choose to de-emphasize in their rhetorical war with wilderness user groups like hunters and the resource extraction industry.
Lets be clear. If you, like me, are a hunter on the southern tip of this island you face some serious problems in enjoying your way of life. Not only is sprawling suburbia eating up wildlife habitat like a cancer but locked gates on the majority private logging lands near Vic. effectively force you to travel way up island to hunt, while the deer population here is healthier than in Cowichan lake, for example.
To extremist preservationists, any human activity is by definition against nature, and must be stopped. This is BS. Humans are a part of the natural world, and recreational resource gathering activities like hunting, fishing, mushroom hunting, edible plant gathering, small scale prospecting/rock hounding and the like are some of the last best ways to preserve this connection. All except fishing are currently illegal in CRD parks because preservationists have been so effective in their lobbying efforts.
I would argue that the more people who actually use these wild places, the more likely it is that political support for urban containment boundaries and urban densification can be generated, because the connection between these things is so direct. Parks like the Sooke Hills Wilderness, which cover vast areas of uninhabited wilderness should exist to facilitate citizens' interaction with nature, not to place obsticles to it.
Posted 27 November 2006 - 10:20 AM
I'm quite certain my enjoyment of exploring CRD parks would be significantly reduced if there were bullets flying around. The other activities you mention have differing levels of impact on the environment--some practices in fact are unsustainable and harmful to the ecosystem.
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Posted 27 November 2006 - 10:46 AM
If you went out hiking anywhere outside of a specifically delineated area prohibited to hunting anytime in the last couple of months, chances are you were sharing the area with hunters. Did you have any near shootings? Were you even aware of their presence?
Now I'm not saying that we should alow hunting at Elk lake or in Beacon Hill Park. But what's so offensive about letting hunters use the more remote parks far from any schools, houses (BC law prohibits the discharge of a firearm within 400 metres of a dwelling) etc. during the Fall when the weather scares most other urban recreational users away.
I'm also not advocating a free for all approach to resource extraction in parks. But to prohibit the non commercial harvesting of mushrooms seems more than heavy handed.
It all comes down to one's philosophical orientation towards nature. Does it make sense to see human activity as one pole in an Earth versus Human binary opposition? Or should we be looking at how we can manage the preservation of multiple values in wilderness areas, including their role as venues for recreation, havens of biodiversity, as well as being sources and sinks for the externalized factors of economic activity.
Posted 27 November 2006 - 11:04 AM
Posted 27 November 2006 - 11:48 AM
The reason why I ask is that it seems to me that it's often those who spend the least amount of time in the bush that are the most eager to limit the access rights of others who spend a great deal more time out there.
I go out to the bush at least once every weekend. Lately I've been trying to bolster my family's meat supply with some of the finest free range organic meat around, mostly in the Sooke Hills and Malahat area. I do most of my hunting on foot, and own no ATVs. I do see a lot of Dirtbikers and ATVers in the areas I travel. I don't love the sound they make, but I accept that the same freedom which allows me to hunt on foot in the area allows these people to do what they want to do for recreation.
Interestingly enough, I went hiking at Oliphant Lake with my wife, 12 moth old baby and some of my environmentalist friends this past Saturday. We ran into several hunters and ATVers on the logging roads we were walking on. All of us were enjoying the snow covered woods in different ways, without causing each other too much grief. The sad part was that we were all technically breaking the law, because this was on Timberwest private land. I don't see why our activities should be criminalized, but that's what a lack of free access public land does. It makes criminals out of the people who have the greatest stake in these places.
Posted 27 November 2006 - 12:34 PM
Posted 27 November 2006 - 08:54 PM
I think a good goal is to get as many people as possible out to appreciate & preserve areas such as this. If successful, and the park becomes similar to say East Sooke or Gowlaand Todd, hunting might become...um... less viable?
Personally, I'd love to see an extensive network of multi-use trails linking Sooke, Goldstream and Shawnigan. As is, like captain highliner, I tend to trespass.
Posted 27 November 2006 - 09:04 PM
Posted 28 November 2006 - 10:12 PM
The sound of complaing about stuff caries much farther than the sound of a motorized vehicle. I'm not hearing any motorized vehicles in this thread, but it's polluted with complaining from hikers!
Posted 28 November 2006 - 10:43 PM
At what point do we stop encroaching on what we take for granted?
Let's stick to the roads for the motorized vehicle and leave our forests alone.
Maybe you were being tongue and cheek, ren. I don't know.
Posted 28 November 2006 - 11:47 PM
But seriously, noise is not a problem in nature, and no, you cannot restrict motorized vehicle access to existing roadways, when the police and ICBC will not allow most recreational vehicles on the road. Hike away my friend, but I am more weary of you freaks the more I speak with you, run and hide if you hear noises in the woods! Otherwise I may be inclined to hunt for a new breed while in the woods! Haha just kidding, but give me a break, if you wanna hike there are plenty of non-motorized parks around, but I've yet to see one on the lower island that's not non-motorized.
Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:46 AM
Just because you can get around the bollards doesn't make it a "motorized park" (which is an oxymoron). Maybe you're talking about different Sooke Hills, but the CRD and TLC lands do not allow motorized vehicles.
if you wanna hike there are plenty of non-motorized parks around, but I've yet to see one on the lower island that's not non-motorized.
Posted 04 December 2006 - 08:20 AM
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