50 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

You guys are missing the biggest point. NY, Singapore, LA and Portland all have millions of residents. They can sustain a larger variety of businesses because of the sheer volume of people, tastes, lifestyles, etc.

Many of Victoria's downtown businesses struggle during the off season and pad their income during the summer months and that especially holds true for food merchants. Having to compete with food carts during the one season that allows you to earn decent income would be unfair. I can sense that some of you have never operated a food business in the downtown core, or any business in the downtown core that relies on walk-in business, and are not familiar with the difficulty of making ends meet in this city during the off season.

Again, I have nothing against food carts, but so long as they do not compete with established businesses by usurping their clientele without a) paying high lease rates and b) paying high operating costs. That's all I'm saying, and I think that's fair. When mat says that Portland is experimenting with "street food evenings," that's exactly the sort of thing I do not see a problem with. If a nearby food business is closed, there's no harm in having the food cart operating on its doorstep, is there?

[Zimquats]

I myself would love to see more street cart guys downtown. At work, I get lunch when I'm able to take it, and quite often that's only for about 15 minutes. I'd way prefer a street cart to ordering ahead or waiting in line at an 'established' place. And, quite frankly, if a street cart can put a sit down restaraunt outta business, it likely wasn't a strong business to start with.

[G-Man]

So I do have experience with more than one downtown eatery, though the ones I worked in catered to locals and did similar business year round. Food carts never came up as an issue.

Many small towns I have visited in latin america are much smaller than Victoria but still had a vibrant food scene that included both restuarants and food carts.

Also with the increase in downtown residents combined with the downturn in Tourism I imagine that our seasonal differences are beginning to disapear.

[Mike K.]

So I do have experience with more than one downtown eatery, though the ones I worked in catered to locals and did similar business year round. Food carts never came up as an issue.

Are street carts immune to lineups and preparation times? If your lunch hour is limited to only 15 minutes then you'll be overly frustrated with the time it can take a busy street cart vendor to take your order then prepare it during peak times (and it's only during peak times that you'd have to wait for your order at a traditional deli or take-out place).

In fact I just recently purchased a hot dog from a cart on Government and waited over 15 minutes to receive it (waited in line to order, then waited to have my hot dog prepared).

Many small towns I have visited in latin america are much smaller than Victoria but still had a vibrant food scene that included both restuarants and food carts.

North America is different. If there are North American towns with vibrant food cart and traditional food businesses, that's something we can learn from. But European and South American ways of doing things might just as well be not applicable to us.

So I do have experience with more than one downtown eatery, though the ones I worked in catered to locals and did similar business year round. Food carts never came up as an issue.

Were food carts located adjacent to these eateries? If not, I don't see how they could have been an issue, and that's probably why they weren't an issue.

[Zimquats]

^^ just goes to show we need more street carts

[G-Man]

One eatery had a hotdog cart near it but both catered to the bar crowd and neither was wanting for business.

[G-Man]

Anyways my point is that once you say we don't want food carts in locales where they may impact another eatery you limit the ability to place food carts anywhere they may be profitable thereby defeating the point in allowing them in the first place.

We need to allow them somewhere and no matter what if you do that they are going to be close to another food establishment.

[Mike K.]

I've seen food carts in the strangest places turn a buck, and that's what their appeal is to me.

Back when I was in high school this fellow operated a hot dog cart in an industrial complex in Esquimalt. It was the strangest place to have a cart, but he had developed a regular clientele where previously there wasn't anyone willing to even walk through the area. Long story short, when the kids from the high school figured out he was there there'd be a pilgrimage of some 10 or 15 kids every lunch hour to his cart and coupled with local industrial business he had his own little thing going that was profitable and quenched a need for a quick lunch in the area.

I'd argue that a food cart would be most successful if it could tap into an area not served by existing businesses and draw its own clients. Take the spot across from Capital Iron. That's a perfect location for a low-overhead cart operation that doesn't impact other nearby food businesses (a couple of coffee shops) and targets a clientele that wouldn't necessarily want to go to a coffee shop for a snack or walk further into downtown for a burger, etc.

When it comes to evening operations, I'm all for it, 100%. What Victoria seriously needs is more late night food operations. And since they're expensive and difficult to manage for a traditional business, it's a perfect opportunity for carts.

[G-Man]

Well personally I would like to see them in the core to serve quick lunches for downtown office workers. There is currently very little selection of quick lunches.

Basically your food choices are a deli for a sandwich, pizza by the slice or the Pig BBQ. Everything with the exception of the food court takes significantly longer.

Most carts I have visted in other cities have food ready for you.

Also look at the noodle box, a successful operation that started with a food cart. So by allowing it we create more jobs and more revenue for the city.

[mat]

I really do not see an issue with encouraging more street vendors, and would actually like to have a greater variety. With a limited number of licenses why not open a contest with menu tastings - hotdogs are OK, but it would be lovely to have vietnamese, mexican etc. as options and variety.

Ghent, in Belgium, has a population of 40 000 and like most western European towns has a cafe on every block. The city ran a competition for street vendors, even with massive opposition from sit down restaurant owners. Over the past 2 years the established eateries have had to admit an increase in sales, even with 20+ vendors plying their trade in a small core area.

The other 'foodie' thing I really miss are the tiffin boxes we used to get in Mumbai. These were delivered right to your desk at lunch in round tin boxes, hot from (usually) a family kitchen. While I loved the curries and Indian food, they often catered to western tastes with versions of club sandwiches and pasta - and it was dirt cheap. Nothing beat home cooked food delivered to work!

[G-Man]

A city that encourages food carts, how novell:

http://www.theglobea...y/National/home