28 replies to this topic

[dasmo]

http://www.victoria....stormwater.html

the City is looking at implementing a new stormwater utility. For property owners, this will mean that starting in 2014, stormwater costs will be taken off of their property taxes and will appear on a new Stormwater Utility bill...
The Stormwater Utility will follow a user-pay model... Stormwater Utility charges will be calculated based on the amount of hard or "non- permeable" surface area, such as roofs, driveways, parking lots and other paved surfaces, that water can't flow through.

This was brought up over at HHV by LeoM and I found it interesting how quiet things are about this in general. It seems like a cleaver way to introduce a new tax that is relatively arbitrary and free from limits. The say it is moving it from property taxes but who are they kidding? Just the added administration is excuse enough for an increase! Plus it's not actually user pay since no outflow is actually being measured.

I guess they are scrambling to come up with new revenue....

[VicHockeyFan]

Ya, it might make some sense, but I'm wary. I think you are right, just the increased bureaucracy to administer it might be excessive.

Wouldn't we be better off to incentize permeable surfaces in new construction or renovations? I mean, who's gonna tear up their existing driveway and replace with a permeable surface to reduce their storm-water utility rate?

[Bob Fugger]

Ya, it might make some sense, but I'm wary. I think you are right, just the increased bureaucracy to administer it might be excessive.

Wouldn't we be better off to incentize permeable surfaces in new construction or renovations? I mean, who's gonna tear up their existing driveway and replace with a permeable surface to reduce their storm-water utility rate?

I don't think that you need to do that. You just need to tear up the first 6" to 1' of it - perhaps install a decorative brick border on the front edge of your driveway.

[VicHockeyFan]

I don't think that you need to do that. You just need to tear up the first 6" to 1' of it - perhaps install a decorative brick border on the front edge of your driveway.

Ya, that looks alright, but will it take all the run-off from your driveway?

[pherthyl]

Ya, it might make some sense, but I'm wary. I think you are right, just the increased bureaucracy to administer it might be excessive.

Wouldn't we be better off to incentize permeable surfaces in new construction or renovations? I mean, who's gonna tear up their existing driveway and replace with a permeable surface to reduce their storm-water utility rate?

I don't see how this will work. Will they send out inspectors to your property to measure square footage of permeable vs non-permeable surfaces? Seems like an insane hassle.

[pherthyl]

I don't think that you need to do that. You just need to tear up the first 6" to 1' of it - perhaps install a decorative brick border on the front edge of your driveway.

I don't get it. How does this change anything to do with drainage?

[aastra]

Stormwater Utility charges will be calculated based on the amount of hard or "non- permeable" surface area, such as roofs...

Managing stormwater protects the health and safety of the public and the environment...

If roof surfaces are included then I guess the goal here is to protect the environment by encouraging property owners to remove roofs from their homes and commercial buildings? So would a very leaky roof get a lower tax rate? How about a roof with a bunch of holes in it?

[VicHockeyFan]

If roof surfaces are included then I guess the goal here is to protect the environment by encouraging property owners to remove roofs from their homes and commercial buildings? So would a very leaky roof get a lower tax rate? How about a roof with a bunch of holes in it?

Ya, that's just plain strange. The roof runs off into the ground around most homes, not to the curb and down the street.

[pherthyl]

Ya, that's just plain strange. The roof runs off into the ground around most homes, not to the curb and down the street.

Roof runs into the perimeter drains and into the sewer. Draining straight to the ground is likely not a good idea for most Victoria homes with basements.

[D.L.]

I don't see how this will work. Will they send out inspectors to your property to measure square footage of permeable vs non-permeable surfaces? Seems like an insane hassle.

could use a computer system that uses high quality aerial photos to determine hard and soft surface area for each property, though large trees would interfere with this

[Mike K.]

Ya, it might make some sense, but I'm wary. I think you are right, just the increased bureaucracy to administer it might be excessive.

Wouldn't we be better off to incentize permeable surfaces in new construction or renovations? I mean, who's gonna tear up their existing driveway and replace with a permeable surface to reduce their storm-water utility rate?

Here's what the City has to say:

Currently, the operation and maintenance costs of the stormwater system are funded through municipal property taxes. The City needs to consider alternate ways to provide sustainable funding to support the stormwater system that are fair, equitable and flexible and address both short and long term issues related to the stormwater system.

Which essentially means we'll pull this arbitrary cost out of your annual taxes so that when we start raising stormwater runoff rates we can still claim property taxes are maintained at x.xx% annually.

This is just another tax in disguise. But hey, how else can we expect the city to raise salaries by 25%?

[VicHockeyFan]

This is just another tax in disguise. But hey, how else can we expect the city to raise salaries by 25%?

I'm OK with user-pay, just this system might not be worth the extra effort.

[VicHockeyFan]

Roof runs into the perimeter drains and into the sewer. Draining straight to the ground is likely not a good idea for most Victoria homes with basements.

I see as much of this as anything around town.



Are you sure older homes have any connection between downspouts and the storm or sanitary pipes?

[seymour201]

So what if you have a rain barrel and catch most/all your water to use in the garden? Or if you have a living roof with grasses, and little plants on say your garage?

[aastra]

I thought pretty much every older house had drain spouts as per VHF's picture. Is it not so?

[aastra]

In Victoria, I mean.

[http]

I see a systematic, built-in inequality. As you deal in larger and larger properties, the percentage of non-permeable surface drops - a driveway on a quarter acre in Oaklands takes up a lot more room proportionately than a driveway on an estate in Ten Mile Point. Folk with larger properties don't generally cover them.

[VicHockeyFan]

I thought pretty much every older house had drain spouts as per VHF's picture. Is it not so?

I guess the weeping tile is connected to the drains, but then how much coming from the gutters goes to groundwater and how much goes into the weeping tile?

[aastra]

After doing a bit of reading I realize just how little I know about this topic. So what's the typical drainage situation re: your typical old Victorian house?

[arfenarf]

Home inspectors flag downspouts that aren't connected to the storm drains as a serious liability. After one wet basement, so do I. I remediated that house and later insisted on remediation for one I was buying. That deal fell through, but that's fine. The expense and hassle of digging proper drainage wasn't worth it to me.