33 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

what if we had something like this here:

Regional sales tax ‘only option’ to pay for Lower Mainland transit expansion, say advocates
Sustainable funding option would cost taxpayers only 35 cents a day
By Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun August 26, 2013

METRO VANCOUVER -- Transit advocates are pushing a regional sales tax as the only option for TransLink to generate the $6.5 billion it needs to expand bus and transit service in Metro Vancouver.

In their Leap Ahead plan, released Monday, transportation bloggers Paul Hillsdon and Nathan Pachal suggest a 0.5 per cent regional sales tax, based on the ratio of former HST revenue proportionate to the Metro Vancouver population, would generate nearly $250 million per year.

Such a move is common in the U.S., where regional sales tax is used to pay for operating transit services in cities like Los Angeles, Seattle and Denver.

http://www.vancouver...5659/story.html

some interviews here:
http://www.cbc.ca/ne...k-proposal.html

I'm just thinking of this old report on our infrastructure. Obvious'y there's other stuff it could be used for too:

Report says infrastructure in Victoria is near collapse; Cost to fix roads, sewers, water lines would be more than $20.7 million
Watts, Richard. Times - Colonist [Victoria, B.C] 25 Jan 2009: A.1.

From the landmark Johnson Street Bridge to roads, buildings, sewers and water lines, Victoria's infrastructure is nearing the end of its life, says a report to city council.

Presented to councillors last week, the report said Victoria's infrastructure is among the oldest of any city in Canada, some of it over a century old.

The report suggested it would cost $20.7 million a year extend the life of some elements of the infrastructure and replace what's broken, but noted the city has budgeted only $10.4 million for the task this year.

"We are trying to play catch-up with rehabilitation and get to the point where we can do proper maintenance and plan for replacement," said Mike Lai, an assistant director in the city's engineering department.

Each of five types of infrastructure was graded: civic facilities and buildings were deemed fair, as was the water system, while storm drains and sanitary sewers were both marked poor. Only roads received a good grade.



Neighbouring Saanich, where infrastructure is typically younger, is also facing high replacement costs.

Colin Doyle, director of engineering, said the municipality has many kilometres of storm sewers constructed from wooden boards. "Not surprisingly the wood has rotted out."

[jonny]

More taxes??? Oh god...

[VicHockeyFan]

No more new taxes. Reduce expenditures to basic levels.

[G-Man]

There are so many ways the city could bring in money a sales tax is ridiculous. It is even more crazy in Vancouver.

There is still no downtown Casino in Victoria that could bring in some money. I actually think that the city lower some business taxes to encourage businesses to start up and fill some of the vacancies downtown. That should actually increase revenues hopefully unless landlords take the difference.

[Mike K.]

Remember guys, new taxes only offset other taxes, it's a win win!!

There are so many ways the city could bring in money a sales tax is ridiculous. It is even more crazy in Vancouver.

There is still no downtown Casino in Victoria that could bring in some money. I actually think that the city lower some business taxes to encourage businesses to start up and fill some of the vacancies downtown. That should actually increase revenues hopefully unless landlords take the difference.

Businesses do not pay taxes but the landlords within which the businesses operate pay taxes.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ mostly but not all leases are triple net. And even on triple net when a portion of your building sits for lease the landlord must pay then.

[Mike K.]

You're totally right about triple-net leases!

Isn't there a tax loophole whereby a landlord pays decreased tax when a property is unrentable (perhaps even when rentable but simply vacant?). I seem to recall hearing something about derelict buildings sitting empty for decades because the tax burden is negligible due to the building's condition or vacancy rate.

[amor de cosmos]

Municipalities in property-tax bind as virtual economy gains ground
Bill Cleverley / Times Colonist
September 3, 2013

A new economy that’s less reliant on bricks and mortar is making it difficult for B.C. municipalities to turn to property taxes to maintain and replace aging infrastructure, says a report to the Union of B.C. Municipalities.

“In the old days, if someone was creating jobs, they also created a great big building on a great big piece of land and paid more in property taxes. Now, there’s much more of a virtual economy and a service economy, so oftentimes when we attract a new employer or attract a new business, there’s not a lot of new property tax.” said Saanich Mayor Frank Leonard, one of the authors of the report Strong Fiscal Futures.

“It [property tax] doesn’t respond to economic growth anymore,” Leonard said.

While the property tax system is reliable, it is pretty much tapped out as a revenue source and doesn’t have the capacity to deal with future municipal needs such as repair and replacement of aging infrastructure, the report says.

http://www.timescolo...ground-1.611384

[jonny]

The solution for what ails municipalities is not regional sales taxes.

I could not imagine what a mess this would be. GST, PST and regional sales taxes...the economy would fall apart. Many corporate information systems were not even designed for more than one tax, nevermind three. There would be three tax remittances, likely three different tax rates, three different sets of rules...jeez.

[Mike K.]

The solution for what ails municipalities is simple: amalgamation, non-unionized staff and good old fashioned belt tightening. Adding another tax would just give the system as currently designed (and failing) even more financially imprudent power to maintain or expand on the status quo.

Unfortunately when your politicians are in the pockets of unions and know darn well their political careers would be over if the entire region had a say in their futures then what impetus exists for the one right solution to be implemented?

And yes, I'm aware that amalgamation in other regions of this country has resulted in cost increases, but that goes right back to the unionized labour issue. If all wages must come up to the highest wages paid of any region now part of a new amalgamated city, how on earth does one expect costs to be reigned in?

[VicHockeyFan]

The Internet does not cause a lot of road wear, or police resources not sure why they need to pay property taxes for that.

[http]

And yes, I'm aware that amalgamation in other regions of this country has resulted in cost increases, but that goes right back to the unionized labour issue. If all wages must come up to the highest wages paid of any region now part of a new amalgamated city, how on earth does one expect costs to be reigned in?

I think you have fallen victim to the Wal-Mart Myth. Translated into Canadian English, it reads "Labour is a fungible expense."

[lanforod]

My first thought on a regional tax in Vancouver to cover the transit costs is that they should make it higher so that it covers road maintenance and full transit costs as well perhaps. Make the buses and trains free for users, just use the regional tax to pay for it all. I'm sure Vision Vancouver would love that... drive everyone onto the bikes, they just keep pushing for Vancouver to look like a Dutch or Belgian city.

[VicHockeyFan]

Free transit is a bad idea. You need to have high enough cost to prevent frivolous use.

[jonny]

I think you have fallen victim to the Wal-Mart Myth. Translated into Canadian English, it reads "Labour is a fungible expense."

Labour related to city workers mowing lawns, weed whacking, picking weeds, removing garbage, painting light standards and much of the other mundane work thse $40/hour city workers do is pretty fungible. I'd bet you could find college students who were willing to do this type of work for less than half the cost and would produce similar results.

[Mike K.]

I think you have fallen victim to the Wal-Mart Myth. Translated into Canadian English, it reads "Labour is a fungible expense."

I'm not sure I understand. If labour wasn't a fungible expense, how can private, non-unionized industry operate?

It used to be that working for a municipality or a government body came with lower wages in exchange for job security and in some cases leading class benefits.

What has happened since the 1990's is unions have demanded wages equal to if not higher than what the private sector offers while upping benefits packages. It's easy to do so when the employer can simply raise taxes to make up for funding shortfalls and increase costs for services if the cost to provide those services is inefficient and becoming financially strained.

The City of Victoria needs to cut costs and cut costs drastically, not keep upping property taxes, fees for services and mull the idea of additional taxes.

[North Shore]

Free transit is a bad idea. You need to have high enough cost to prevent frivolous use.

Frivolous use of the transit system? What does that look like - people jumping on the bus for one stop just for the heck of it? Street people travelling around all day on rainy days, because the bus is warm and dry?

[VicHockeyFan]

Frivolous use of the transit system? What does that look like - people jumping on the bus for one stop just for the heck of it? Street people travelling around all day on rainy days, because the bus is warm and dry?

People that do not have a job (unemployed, those on social assistance, the disabled and retired, underage etc.) or others after work/school taking multiple trips per day, not consolidating their tasks for best efficiency.

[North Shore]

Labour related to city workers mowing lawns, weed whacking, picking weeds, removing garbage, painting light standards and much of the other mundane work thse $40/hour city workers do is pretty fungible. I'd bet you could find college students who were willing to do this type of work for less than half the cost and would produce similar results.

$40/hr for mowing lawns, etc? Really? Show the payscale, please. Nevermind, here it is:http://www.saanich.c...eA2007-2011.pdf Hmm, Accountants at $40/hr, lawn mowers, not so much... I suppose you could cut the lawnmowers down to $15/hr, but I suspect you'd lose out in intangibles like training costs, corporate memory, and pride in the job...

[Nparker]

$40/hr for mowing lawns, etc? Really? Show the payscale, please. Nevermind, here it is:http://www.saanich.c...eA2007-2011.pdf Hmm, Accountants at $40/hr, lawn mowers, not so much...

Surely you know NS that hyperbole trumps fact every time.