234 replies to this topic

[D.L.]

Yeah if you don't own the land you could be surprised when they decide to do something else with the land, and then it becomes difficult to sell.

heh heh, just like the folks in the mobile home park who where kicked out to make way for this development. there'll probably be a 99 year lease or something semi-permanent like that

I like the idea of this development. A new "town" in the region

[Coopershawk]

heh heh, just like the folks in the mobile home park who where kicked out to make way for this development. there'll probably be a 99 year lease or something semi-permanent like that

I like the idea of this development. A new "town" in the region

I would never do it...too much uncertainty and the history of these developments is outrageous!

[LJ]

650sf will cost $290K all the way out in East Sooke and I don't even own the land!!!! There are similar sized condos in good parts of Victoria for well under $150K. Seems like a no brainer to me

Yeah, if you don't own the land you definitely have a depreciating asset.

Silverspray has similar view lots that you own if you wanted to live that lifestyle.

[concorde]

In my opinion, people would have to be stupid to consider buying into this. Not that I am buying, but Silver Spray is hands down a better deal because you OWN the land. As LJ stated, at this place you have a depreciating asset. Personally I would value the land lease at $1 and the house at fair construction value. A 650sf house therefore isn't worth more than $65,001, not $290K

[phx]

In my opinion, people would have to be stupid to consider buying into this.

I predict it sells well.

[Sparky]

^^ A 99 year land lease is worth a lot more than $1 as long as it's not in it's last year.

http://www.realtor.c...aspx?source=web

[VicHockeyFan]

I predict it sells well.

Me too. A 99-year lease is very secure, banks will loan on it.

[Bingo]

"There are downsides to holding property under a land lease contract. It is often problematic finding financing for land lease homes. This makes them harder to sell. HOA fees for these properties are invariably higher than those for comparable houses owned outright or for condos. The residents generally share in the cost of the lease of the land. That portion of the lease might appear in the monthly HOA bill. In addition, the HOA might make large assessments to cover major community improvements."

http://www.realtor.c...aspx?source=web

It's those "large assessments" and the "harder to sell" phrases that would deter me.

[mysage]

I believe that Orchard House on Michigan St. is a 99 yr lease building and they have to be at least 30 years into that lease period. Anyone know for sure?

[concorde]

Here's an article from England on land leases and how the value will lower over time

http://www.thisismon...-time-bomb.html

Lets see, buy other real estate that will appreciate in value over the long term, or buy at this place which will be depreciating over time.

[darlenet8]

Greetings. I'm Darlene Tait (darlenet8 to you thanks) and will be the voice of Spirit Bay on this forum. I am handling the Marketing and Communications for Spirit Bay and have been involved with numerous other large-scale, sustainable projects here and internationally for the last couple of decades (older for sure, wiser I hope).
We have launched our sales program - the SpiritBay.ca web launched in a very preliminary fashion a couple of weeks ago and phase 2 should launch in the next day or so. I will pop in here from time to time to see if I can answer questions or shed any light on issues. In the meantime feel free to reach me directly at mail@darlenetait.com.
Looking forward to the questions/discussions.

[Sparky]

Welcome to vibrantvictoria darlenet8.

[darlenet8]

Yes, the lands at Spirit Bay are a 99 year lease which are not likely to devalue in our lifetime (ok MY lifetime). But Spirit Bay is proposing a development that isn't available anywhere else (I know - the plans aren't fully out there so it makes commenting a bit difficult right now) so, assuming the development appeals to a person and it isn't available anywhere else, I have to ask myself what matters most? For some, the answer will be "appreciating real estate" and for others, "living the kind of life I want right now in a place I want to be." There isn't a right answer ...

[darlenet8]

Me too. A 99-year lease is very secure, banks will loan on it.

I might also add that the 99 year lease will be registered in the Federal Land Titles office, come with Title Insurance and be CMHC insured. The banks advise they will treat it as fee simple...

[darlenet8]

For the hard-core development nerds out there, you may want to consider this exceptionally lively discussion about Spirit Bay on Facebook...

https://www.facebook...t=share_comment

[Kim pirate]

Greetings. I'm Darlene Tait (darlenet8 to you thanks) and will be the voice of Spirit Bay on this forum. I am handling the Marketing and Communications for Spirit Bay and have been involved with numerous other large-scale, sustainable projects here and internationally for the last couple of decades (older for sure, wiser I hope).
We have launched our sales program - the SpiritBay.ca web launched in a very preliminary fashion a couple of weeks ago and phase 2 should launch in the next day or so. I will pop in here from time to time to see if I can answer questions or shed any light on issues. In the meantime feel free to reach me directly at mail@darlenetait.com.
Looking forward to the questions/discussions.

A few questions:

1- Since Native lands are not under the jurisdiction of Canadian Provincial Law, the Bank loans ( mortgage ), are not protected as on a fee simple title on Crown Land ( Canadian territory ). Consequently, do you know of any Canadian Bank willing to loan money for property purchase on Native land ? ( Especially on a lease grant.)
2 - The lands to be occupied by this high density project, are today, covered by a beautiful forest. Is a clear cut, part of the developer's
sustainability philosophy ?
3 - How will the sewage system be constructed for such an high density "town"?
4- Will the Municipality of Metchosin allow for the connection of Hydro and water or will the project use wind turbines, sun energy and desalinization units?
Thanks for your attention.

[Kim pirate]

I might also add that the 99 year lease will be registered in the Federal Land Titles office, come with Title Insurance and be CMHC insured. The banks advise they will treat it as fee simple...

I think you should inform yourself about these matters.
You will be surprised !

[darlenet8]

A few questions:

1- Since Native lands are not under the jurisdiction of Canadian Provincial Law, the Bank loans ( mortgage ), are not protected as on a fee simple title on Crown Land ( Canadian territory ). Consequently, do you know of any Canadian Bank willing to loan money for property purchase on Native land ? ( Especially on a lease grant.)
2 - The lands to be occupied by this high density project, are today, covered by a beautiful forest. Is a clear cut, part of the developer's
sustainability philosophy ?
3 - How will the sewage system be constructed for such an high density "town"?
4- Will the Municipality of Metchosin allow for the connection of Hydro and water or will the project use wind turbines, sun energy and desalinization units?
Thanks for your attention.

Kim Pirate - In response to: A few questions:

1- The title is held in the Federal Land Titles office and it is CMHC insured and we have commitments from 2 national and one Credit Union to provide funding and mortgages
2 - I'm not sure where you got "high density" or "clear-cut" from but neither are true. Have you been to the site of the development recently? The lands have been occupied by improperly serviced lots for decades and we are in the process of cleaning up a tremendous mess. We are sorting all the debris for recycling and are servicing the lands properly for a mixed-use development that will provide a real opportunity for the future of the Scianew First Nations who are 51% owners of the development company (while retaining underlying ownership). Not high density. There will eventually be a village Center with live-above-the-shop style housing and some waterfront townhomes all in later phases.
3 - There will be tertiary level sewage treatment that will be developed after the first phase. In the interim sewage will be pumped to a central lift station where it will be collected and treated the same way I suspect your sewage is.
4- The project will connect to existing Hydro and water although fire services will be provided from the Band's own reservoir. The industrial lands will be home to a waste-to-energy facility (all organic wastes will be composted) to provide energy in later phases. There is no plan for desalination.

[darlenet8]

I think you should inform yourself about these matters.
You will be surprised !

Kim Pirate - surprise me. Tell me what you know that indicates to you that I need inform myself. Are you familiar with First Nations lands governed under the Land Code as opposed to the Indian Act?
I have been wrong before and if you can provide some actual facts I would be delighted to correct them.

[Barra]

Yes, he's the guy behind this project.

They are married.