508 replies to this topic

[Stephen James]

Thing is I know my perspective tell me yours.  You might know my role but you have no idea how I manage staff.  All you know is that in almost every instance I have seen, production has decreased.  I actually do not see an example of improvement, and again this is not my staff as we are service based.  I suppose the only example I have seen is, yeah people working from home are happier to do that, why wouldn't they be?  I'm seeing this also in all our contracted tech support but I feel they aren't working from home they are just loosing their jobs.

 

Again I asked which jobs are results based?  What I have seen is less productivity and therefore things either getting done late or things dropping off the shelf.  For the most part I've been considering the government jobs with the province where this discussion is occurring.  People who I know are pushing this to the limits.  Seemingly they have no trouble talking about it and are even proud that they do less.  Private sector is much different and there are easier ways of dealing with staff if needed.

 

Maybe all jobs are results based...

"As a result of my work, these people received the meals they asked for, on a clean table, with appropriate utensils and condiments..."

"As a result of my work, XXX was able to use my research, by X date, to accomplish..."

"As a result of my work, 22 people received responses to their queries..."

"As a result of my work, a policy analysis was completed by X date which meant changes were made to end the conflict between..."

 

Peter Drucker discussed work as a "contribution" to results (satisfying a want/need.)

I've done a little work designing accountability-measurements-results, balanced scorecards for teams, orgs.

Just one way of looking at it.

 

I've heard that the public sector is 10-20 years behind the private sector in management/leadership/org effectiveness theory and practice... but I don't know. In the private sector there's no "unlimited taxation" so culture may generally focus more on efficient use of resources. 

[Victoria Watcher]

After broken windows, what will come next?

There are many factors contributing to the broken window syndrome in downtown Victoria. Homelessness, mental health issues and drug addiction for sure but let me suggest other possible causes.

 

The cost of basic necessities such as food and shelter, transportation, clothing, necessary health care and similar is increasing at what seems to be an ever growing rate. Those towards the bottom of the income scale find it more and more difficult to make ends meet. Add children to the equation and the situation is even worse.

 

When the U.K. referendum came out in favour of Brexit there was astonishment amongst the chattering classes. But why?

 

Let me suggest that those at the top of the heap such as politicians, senior civil servants, the (so-called) intellectuals, the university types and similar are so well rewarded they have no idea what is going on at the other end of the spectrum.

 

Minimal-wage jobs, the cost of housing, the perceived threat of massive immigration, the lack of social justice, the inequity of the justice system, the frustration, the anger, all inevitably lead to social unrest.

 

In the U.K. it led to Brexit, in America to Donald Trump, in Europe to right-wing populist governments. In Canada we had the truckers’ convoy to Ottawa, border shutdowns in Alberta, and now smashed windows in Victoria.

 

In Ottawa we have a prime minister and cabinet members who seem to think that doling out favours to friends and family is the norm.

 

Conflict of interest is unknown and when caught out a muttered apology is thought to be sufficient. There is no sense of responsibility nor ministerial accountability.

 

We have a broken medical system, the Canada Revenue Agency is ignoring billions of excess CERB payments whilst going after the working John and Jane.

 

It seems that contracting out is becoming the norm because even with ever-increasing numbers of employees the government doesn’t have in-house skills. Contracting out is a shambles — ask civil servants about the Phoenix payroll debacle, and as for military procurement….

 

So far it is broken windows in downtown Victoria. I shudder to think how much worse it might get.

 

 

Brian Summers

Victoria

 

 

https://www.timescol...cs-name-6597725

[Victoria Watcher]

The cost of basic necessities such as food and shelter, transportation, clothing, necessary health care and similar is increasing at what seems to be an ever growing rate. Those towards the bottom of the income scale find it more and more difficult to make ends meet. Add children to the equation and the situation is even worse.

 

 

 

Not sure these windows being broken have anything to do with food prices or minimum wages.

 

 

Minimal-wage jobs, the cost of housing, the perceived threat of massive immigration, the lack of social justice, the inequity of the justice system, the frustration, the anger, all inevitably lead to social unrest.

 

 

 

Nor is it "unrest" or a social statement.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 February 2023 - 06:02 AM.

[Barrrister]

Brian Summers is just being fanciful to the point of non reality and obviously trying to drive a social agenda. Twenty paragraphs of verbiage with no supporting facts does not make an argument worthy of a reply.

[Ismo07]

Maybe all jobs are results based...

"As a result of my work, these people received the meals they asked for, on a clean table, with appropriate utensils and condiments..."

"As a result of my work, XXX was able to use my research, by X date, to accomplish..."

"As a result of my work, 22 people received responses to their queries..."

"As a result of my work, a policy analysis was completed by X date which meant changes were made to end the conflict between..."

 

Peter Drucker discussed work as a "contribution" to results (satisfying a want/need.)

I've done a little work designing accountability-measurements-results, balanced scorecards for teams, orgs.

Just one way of looking at it.

 

I've heard that the public sector is 10-20 years behind the private sector in management/leadership/org effectiveness theory and practice... but I don't know. In the private sector there's no "unlimited taxation" so culture may generally focus more on efficient use of resources. 

 

All jobs have results sure, but they are not based when you achieve a certain amount of things done you would go home early.  Like they are not quota based as in they are not finite.  Some jobs you just have work forever.  In the private sector there is no "unlimited taxation"?  I would agree that you can't measure an income based sector with a sector that is not income (or revenue) based, so I'm not sure why you would think to do that.   

 

Speaking from a City revenue perspective, I only focus on efficient use of resources.  With this however there is a focus on the public lens as well and not just about decisions based on increasing profits as a bottom line. It is difficult to look at what I do against what say a local private parking company.  We have some different goals and I would say a private company would have greater flexibility for making some decisions but I wouldn't suggest we are 10-20 years behind with respect for effectiveness.  Have you got an example to back up what you've heard?

Edited by Ismo07, 23 February 2023 - 02:01 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

An open letter to Shannon Salter, deputy minister to the premier

 

https://www.vicnews....ria-businesses/

 

Thank you for recognizing one of the greatest challenges facing employers as you work for the people of our province and the health and viability of the public sector workforce.

 

We can tell you that helping employers find and keep workers continues to be one of the top advocacy priorities for the Greater Victoria Chamber of Commerce and our community partners at the Downtown Victoria Business Association, Destination Greater Victoria, Hotels Association of Greater Victoria and the BC Restaurant and Foodservices Association.

 

It’s a complex problem that affects many layers of our economy. Affordable housing and child-care as well as a sound regional transportation strategy are key to making regional economies such as Greater Victoria’s more resilient and sustainable.

 

Your government is beginning to make real progress on finding solutions.

 

With that in mind, on behalf of Greater Victoria employers and business community, we urge you to consider the potentially catastrophic domino effect that changing the nature of public sector work could have on the economy of our provincial capital.

 

The proposal by the BC Public Service to disrupt its hiring practices will further reduce the number of workers in downtown Victoria and in our region as a whole.

 

This decision has been made without consideration to the economic ecosystem that Greater Victoria has supported for decades. These workplace practices were needed during the pandemic, but employers, including the federal government, are returning to the higher productivity and long-term benefits of having employees back in a well-designed workspace experience provided by downtown offices.

 

We urge you to please take the time to consider the full implications this proposal would have on the stability of BC’s capital city. Many family-supporting businesses have been built on providing service to government workers.

 

The public sector is a ­cornerstone of our economy and helps Greater Victoria support a world-class tourism and hospitality industry and a vibrant city centre that is a source of pride for the province as among the highest-rated downtown experiences in the world.

 

 

 

Bruce Williams, Greater Victoria Chamber of Commerce

Ian Tostenson, B.C. Restaurant and Food Services Association

Paul Nursey, Destination Greater Victoria

Jeff Bray, Downtown Victoria Business Association

Bill Lewis, Hotel Association of Greater Victoria

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 25 February 2023 - 10:30 AM.

[Nparker]

...Your government is beginning to make real progress on finding solutions....

[Mike K.]

It’s too late.

The workers don’t want to go back downtown. This is the consequence of what began in the mid-2010s.

[aastra]

For those keeping score of the progression over the past few years:

 

From:

-downtown desperately needs more office space; new condos are eating valuable office space

 

To:

-downtown offices are public health death traps (even though they were never public health death traps before)

 

To:

-downtown offices are not public health death traps after all, but downtown itself is just too dangerous, expensive, inconvenient, and otherwise undesirable

 

To:

-downtown offices are public health death traps again (Whoops, sorry, they haven't launched that phase yet)

[aastra]

There's always a crisis.

[aastra]

I forgot the part about how improved cycling infrastructure will supply downtown with tons more workers and shoppers. Or maybe it won't. Or maybe the workers and shoppers will all be dangerously diseased. Or maybe not. Or something like that.

[Victoria Watcher]

Effective April 1, postings for provincial government jobs will open up to qualified people wherever they live in B.C., an initiative that in the future may see small government offices set up in more rural communities.

 

The 36,000-member-strong B.C. public service lost about 3,000 employees last year. Filling vacancies and expanding the talent pool is an “urgent issue,” Salter has told the Times Colonist.

 

But the business groups said the new strategy will come at a cost to Greater Victoria.

 

“We urge you to consider the potentially catastrophic domino effect that changing the nature of public sector work could have on the economy of our provincial capital,” the business groups said in the letter. “The proposal by the B.C. public service to disrupt its hiring practices will further reduce the number of workers in downtown Victoria and in our region as a whole.

 

“This decision has been made without consideration to the economic ecosystem that Greater Victoria has supported for decades,” the letter added. “These workplace practices were needed during the pandemic, but employers, including the federal government, are returning to the higher productivity and long-term benefits of having employees back in a well-designed workspace experience provided by downtown offices.”

 

The groups are urging the province to consider the implications the proposal would have on the stability of the provincial capital, where many businesses are still feeling the pinch of government employees working from home, and not eating in restaurants or supporting local shops.

 

“Many family-supporting businesses have been built on providing service to government workers,” the letter said.

 

 

https://www.timescol...-groups-6613114

[Mike K.]

It’s amazing, how for years people were mocked for suggesting one way to help with government worker retention and to cut down on unnecessary travel into the downtown by workers who don’t need to be there, is to build government offices on the West Shore.

At least the earnings would be kept local. And other CRD communities could benefit from the workers. And there would be less pressure on infrastructure during the rush.

Now: “… an initiative that in the future may see small government offices set up in more rural communities.”

Oh well.

[aastra]

 

It’s amazing, how for years people were mocked for suggesting one way to help...

 

You can pretty much leave it there. This is what I'm saying. We've never been able to keep our crisis narratives straight. We bounce from one crisis to the next and forget all about the previous crisis. Some of the particulars of the previous crisis may be useful to fuel the following crisis, but if not then toss them down the memory hole without any acknowledgment of the irony and the absurdity. Remembering is terrorism.

[Stephen James]

All jobs have results sure, but they are not based when you achieve a certain amount of things done you would go home early.  Like they are not quota based as in they are not finite.  Some jobs you just have work forever.  In the private sector there is no "unlimited taxation"?  I would agree that you can't measure an income based sector with a sector that is not income (or revenue) based, so I'm not sure why you would think to do that.   

 

Speaking from a City revenue perspective, I only focus on efficient use of resources.  With this however there is a focus on the public lens as well and not just about decisions based on increasing profits as a bottom line. It is difficult to look at what I do against what say a local private parking company.  We have some different goals and I would say a private company would have greater flexibility for making some decisions but I wouldn't suggest we are 10-20 years behind with respect for effectiveness.  Have you got an example to back up what you've heard?

No, as I said it's anecdotal and heard from senior public servants at the federal and provincial level, who were participating in a series of courses on leadership and strategy at U of T. I don't think the statements mean it's necessarily true... the folks commenting had never worked in the private sector so it was two groups with no experience in each other's realm, guessing about what it was like.

 

My point is related to the question of whether I need you to be physically near me to hold you accountable for your work, enable efficient work (as efficient as if I were proximate), create an environment where the best work gets done...

I'm saying that when work is considered as a contribution to "something", that contribution is the accountability and my being nearby doesn't necessarily make any difference. It's not about going home early; more about how to create the transparency about work that benefits all the workers.

 

I've found people would like autonomy, based on their perceived mastery of a job/task, and their lives are more fulfilled knowing they made a contribution. Research suggests 80% + are motivated this way...

Knowing they made a contribution, with the right context of everyone's contribution, is where we like to be. A combination of meaning for me (my contribution) and being treated fairly (balancing transparency with confidentiality.)

Edited by Stephen James, 26 February 2023 - 11:39 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Small businesses are asking for a deadline extension on the federal government's pandemic loan program — and only a fraction of them have repaid the money they owe.

The Canadian Emergency Business Account (CEBA) was introduced at the height of the pandemic to help out small businesses forced to close or limit their operations due to public health measures. The program offered interest-free loans backed by the federal government.

Nearly 900,000 businesses were approved for the program, which distributed just under $50 billion in loans.

https://www.cbc.ca/n...nsion-1.6759630

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 February 2023 - 07:57 AM.

[lanforod]

No, as I said it's anecdotal and heard from senior public servants at the federal and provincial level, who were participating in a series of courses on leadership and strategy at U of T. I don't think the statements mean it's necessarily true... the folks commenting had never worked in the private sector so it was two groups with no experience in each other's realm, guessing about what it was like.

 

My point is related to the question of whether I need you to be physically near me to hold you accountable for your work, enable efficient work (as efficient as if I were proximate), create an environment where the best work gets done...

I'm saying that when work is considered as a contribution to "something", that contribution is the accountability and my being nearby doesn't necessarily make any difference. It's not about going home early; more about how to create the transparency about work that benefits all the workers.

 

I've found people would like autonomy, based on their perceived mastery of a job/task, and their lives are more fulfilled knowing they made a contribution. Research suggests 80% + are motivated this way...

Knowing they made a contribution, with the right context of everyone's contribution, is where we like to be. A combination of meaning for me (my contribution) and being treated fairly (balancing transparency with confidentiality.)

 

Very much this. I think perhaps where you and I differ from Ismo is the level/skill/type of roles we are talking about. I'm very much talking about professional, knowledge based worker roles.

[lanforod]

 

Effective April 1, postings for provincial government jobs will open up to qualified people wherever they live in B.C., an initiative that in the future may see small government offices set up in more rural communities.

 

The 36,000-member-strong B.C. public service lost about 3,000 employees last year. Filling vacancies and expanding the talent pool is an “urgent issue,” Salter has told the Times Colonist.

 

But the business groups said the new strategy will come at a cost to Greater Victoria.

 

“We urge you to consider the potentially catastrophic domino effect that changing the nature of public sector work could have on the economy of our provincial capital,” the business groups said in the letter. “The proposal by the B.C. public service to disrupt its hiring practices will further reduce the number of workers in downtown Victoria and in our region as a whole.

 

“This decision has been made without consideration to the economic ecosystem that Greater Victoria has supported for decades,” the letter added. “These workplace practices were needed during the pandemic, but employers, including the federal government, are returning to the higher productivity and long-term benefits of having employees back in a well-designed workspace experience provided by downtown offices.”

 

The groups are urging the province to consider the implications the proposal would have on the stability of the provincial capital, where many businesses are still feeling the pinch of government employees working from home, and not eating in restaurants or supporting local shops.

 

“Many family-supporting businesses have been built on providing service to government workers,” the letter said.

 

 

https://www.timescol...-groups-6613114

 

 

I'm sure Sparky is all for this. Keep Victoria small and simple .

I think current salaries offered by the province is more of a problem with retention than anything else. They need to go and compare their salaries with equivalent positions in other public sector unions. It's the number one issue there that I see for any non-entry level role.
Opening up work to the entire province will help mitigate that a little, as someone can make the same wages living in low cost ... I dunno, Princeton, as opposed to living in high cost Victoria or Vancouver. But it won't make that much of a difference in the short term. It will take time, and in the meantime, lots of other places have workplace flexibility too.

[Victoria Watcher]

Small businesses are asking for a deadline extension on the federal government's pandemic loan program — and only a fraction of them have repaid the money they owe.

The Canadian Emergency Business Account (CEBA) was introduced at the height of the pandemic to help out small businesses forced to close or limit their operations due to public health measures. The program offered interest-free loans backed by the federal government.

Nearly 900,000 businesses were approved for the program, which distributed just under $50 billion in loans.

https://www.cbc.ca/n...nsion-1.6759630

 

I think any business in a central business district will have trouble recovering.

 

Go Train down 50%, West Coast Express down nearly 60%.  Ottawa transit still down 35%.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 February 2023 - 08:24 AM.

[spanky123]

Small businesses are asking for a deadline extension on the federal government's pandemic loan program — and only a fraction of them have repaid the money they owe.

 

I suspect that the vast majority of loans will not be repaid and that the Liberals will again extend the repayment deadline and eventually write off the loans. Nobody I know has any intention of repaying their $40K at this point.,