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The Foreign Buyer: Vancouver vs Victoria


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#81 johnk

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:36 AM

Yes, because realtors stand to make a killing off of creating an atmosphere of xenophobia....(face palm)

Alas, I suppose you don't have any trouble with your income taxes subsidizing "poverty stricken" millionaire migrants who live in million dollar homes paid in cash:

http://www.vancouver...6169/story.html

44,000 millionaire migrant and their families immigrated to the Lower Mainland between 2004-2014, the vast majority of which claim "poverty" because their income is not reported in Canada, and thus receive cash income assistance. Millionaires who do not pay income tax in this country receiving cash income assistance from the government. Think about that for a minute.

Your tax dollars at work. Is anybody OK with this?

44,000 foreign millionaires in the lower mainland? Sure. What's the source for that?

Edited by johnk, 17 June 2015 - 09:37 AM.


#82 gumgum

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:25 PM

44,000 foreign millionaires in the lower mainland? Sure. What's the source for that?

 

Here.

From 2005-2012, about 45,000 millionaire migrants arrived in Vancouver under just two wealth-determined schemes, the now-defunct Immigrant Investor Programme and the still-running Quebec Immigrant Investor Programme. Let’s put that in perspective. The entire United States only accepted 9,450 wealth migration applications in the same period under its famous EB-5 scheme, likely representing fewer than 30,000 individuals.

 



#83 gumgum

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:30 PM

Link

 

[...]Vancouver has recently received more wealth-determined migration than any other city in the world, by a long stretch. This, in a city with some of the lowest incomes in Canada. …

Foreign buyers probably aren’t to blame for Vancouver’s unaffordability. But foreign money probably is. And cracking down on the foreignness of funds will prove much harder than dealing with the foreignness of buyers, even if the will to do so exists. …

Another factor often neglected is that a successful “fix” for unaffordability would crush a great many people, probably as many as it helps. In peril would be a real estate and development industry that employs thousands. Anyone who already owns a home would also be at risk. Thousands of elders banking on their homes as a retirement nest egg. Thousands of recent buyers facing the terrifying prospect of negative equity, with mortgages far exceeding the value of their homes.

It’s no surprise the politicians are treading carefully. [...]

 



#84 lanforod

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:31 PM

As long as those immigrants actually move to the lower mainland, whats the issue?



#85 Greg

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:45 PM

I'm not following the logic here. Even if you believe the numbers (and they come from a blog and are based on an "educated assessment"), the issue is the effect on housing prices. So we are to assume I imagine that they are buying expensive real estate in Vancouver (even if they entered under a Quebec scheme), and then are somehow a burden on the system because they are not actually living in Vancouver. But realistically, I'm not sure how much of a burden a non-resident who is paying property taxes on an expensive piece of property can really be.

 

And I question how much "cash assistance" from the government these "non-tax paying residents" (excluding property taxes presumably) are actually correcting. There is a long-standing myth in the States about illegal immigrants collecting social services, when in fact the data suggests the exact opposite. Illegals pay their taxes (because they are withheld from paychecks) but under-use available social services (for fear of being detected). A lot of that myth stems from simple anti-immigrant bigotry, which I'd like to think is not the issue with Chinese buying property in Vancouver, as that would be sad.



#86 lanforod

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:55 PM

Well, a lot of wealthy immigrants purchasing property in Vancouver should have an effect on prices. However, the estimated percentage of these is less than 5% overall. Perhaps on the luxury market, which in Vancouver is probably over 4 million.



#87 gumgum

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 01:08 PM

I'm not following the logic here. Even if you believe the numbers (and they come from a blog and are based on an "educated assessment"), the issue is the effect on housing prices. So we are to assume I imagine that they are buying expensive real estate in Vancouver (even if they entered under a Quebec scheme), and then are somehow a burden on the system because they are not actually living in Vancouver. But realistically, I'm not sure how much of a burden a non-resident who is paying property taxes on an expensive piece of property can really be.

 

And I question how much "cash assistance" from the government these "non-tax paying residents" (excluding property taxes presumably) are actually correcting. There is a long-standing myth in the States about illegal immigrants collecting social services, when in fact the data suggests the exact opposite. Illegals pay their taxes (because they are withheld from paychecks) but under-use available social services (for fear of being detected). A lot of that myth stems from simple anti-immigrant bigotry, which I'd like to think is not the issue with Chinese buying property in Vancouver, as that would be sad.

There are plenty of racists that want to limit immigration and use Vancouver house prices as an example.

But that doesn't mean to say we don't have a problem here specific with some super rich manipulating the system.



#88 adios55

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 07:54 AM

I'm not following the logic here. Even if you believe the numbers (and they come from a blog and are based on an "educated assessment"), the issue is the effect on housing prices. So we are to assume I imagine that they are buying expensive real estate in Vancouver (even if they entered under a Quebec scheme), and then are somehow a burden on the system because they are not actually living in Vancouver. But realistically, I'm not sure how much of a burden a non-resident who is paying property taxes on an expensive piece of property can really be.

 

And I question how much "cash assistance" from the government these "non-tax paying residents" (excluding property taxes presumably) are actually correcting. There is a long-standing myth in the States about illegal immigrants collecting social services, when in fact the data suggests the exact opposite. Illegals pay their taxes (because they are withheld from paychecks) but under-use available social services (for fear of being detected). A lot of that myth stems from simple anti-immigrant bigotry, which I'd like to think is not the issue with Chinese buying property in Vancouver, as that would be sad.

Some good questions you raise.  This issue is purely fiscal and has nothing to do with race.  It has everything to do with the origin of the money and nothing to do with the origin of the person.  Let me attempt to explain:

 

 - The vast majority of services in this country are funded through the income tax.  Not sales, property, or any other kind of tax.  Roughly 70% of every dollar the government spends comes from both corporate and personal income tax.  Now if you come to this country and live here and enjoy the social services that we have to offer yet are not reporting income because your spouse continues to work in their home country, then this is a fundamental problem.   

 

- The federal government closed the now defunct immigrant investor program because they found the average millionaire migrant paid less in taxes than the average refugee who has come here.  In other words, it was a total failure of a program.  

 

- Now if are large sum of foreign earned capital were to be injected into the local real estate market and subsequently distort the average price for a home which normally would be dictated by the health of the local economy, or what the average household income could reasonably afford, you've now created a situation which you place an artificially inflated stress on the families that live and work in that area, as their cost of living goes up beyond what is dictated by the economy.  In the case of the Lower Mainland, this situation is now a full blown crisis.  If interest rates in a few years sky rocket, there will be a lot of families that are already stretched to the max that will be suffering greatly.  And if people start to default, guess who will responsible?  The CMHC, which by the way, is backed by the tax-payer.  

 

Do you see the issue here?  Don't get me wrong - I believe immigration is a good thing (It'd be weird to suggest otherwise seeing that I'm the son of an immigrant).  It is usually the case that immigrants come to a country such as ours (and as you referred to the US and its illegal immigrants), and work hard for a better life. In the process of doing so they contribute to the economy and help build the country.  The issue I raise is if the immigrants come here and don't need to work, or worse, leave the family here and continue to work in their home country and so skirt paying taxes on said income.  And because they are not reporting that income, it appears that they are in "poverty", and so receive assistance that families who are in true poverty are eligible for (much of that assistance is automatic based on the income tax filing - so they receive the assistance without application).  That I have a problem with.  I hope any rational minded person would see it as a problem as well.    


Edited by adios55, 18 June 2015 - 08:14 AM.

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#89 Mike K.

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 07:56 AM

Do you see the issue here?  Don't get me wrong - I believe immigration is a good thing (It'd be weird to suggest otherwise seeing that I'm the son of an immigrant).  It is usually the case that immigrants come to a country such as ours (and as you referred to the US and its illegal immigrants), and work hard for a better life. In the process of doing so they contribute to the economy and help build the country.  The issue I raise is if the immigrants come here and don't need to work, or worse, leave the family here and continue to work in their home country and so skirt paying taxes on said income.  That I have a problem with.  I hope any rational minded person would see it as a problem as well.

 

 

Yes exactly.


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#90 Nparker

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:10 PM

Vancouver comes in 3rd in livability survey. http://www.cnn.com/2...2015/index.html

3 Canadian cities in the top 5!



 



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