191 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

It's on Saturday June 18th this year...

I wonder if the change from Sunday will have much effect on the crowds?

[Mike K.]

The first two years of this event have been outstanding. I think the inaugural fee of $50 considering the foot traffic was an absolute steal. To double the size of the event and only jump the fee up to $75, was certainly reasonable, so no doubt going to $100 is fair this year.

 

Honestly, this event draws tens of thousands of people to downtown. If you can't manage to shell out $100 for that kind of visibility, you need to re-think your business strategy.

 

Most farmers markets/vendor fairs charge well beyond $100 a table and get a fraction of that crowd size. Car Free YYJ is easily one of the best deals of the year for vendors, especially the food vendors.

 

One of the best things this Council has done, and that's saying a lot.

 

Foot traffic doesn't convert to sales, though. People are just milling through, they're not buying.

 

I've worked the festival two years now and I've spoken to many vendors who were there because its high-profile, but they're not selling anywhere near what they would at specialty craft fairs or markets where their entrance fee is 1/4 or 1/3 of what the DVBA now wants to charge. 

 

I have no doubt that they'll fill up their vendor slots, but it's a shame to see vendors who took the initial risk to help make the event what it is now priced out of the event.

[thundergun]

Sorry, I meant Sunday June 18th

[Dietrich]

Sure, if you're a food vendor or selling some sort of thing kids will be right into, but I don't necessarily agree.

 

For artisans and crafters it's a gamble because there is no guarantee you'll make your money back; it's an investment, and much more than a vendor fee goes into these events, particularly full day events. It's a big commitment that can run you hundreds of dollars which is fine if you're charging high prices for pottery or whatever else might be a bigger ticket item but not everyone is selling such things. First there is the vendor fee, costs to ensure you have what you need for your outdoor set up (while an investment can still be a continual cost), then there is hours of extra work and materials that goes into making sure you have an ample and diverse supply of whatever it is you make. Add to that the extra day-of costs - ensuring you have an ample supply of food and drinks on hand, whether pre-prepared or purchased there, it's an added expense. It's hit and miss for artisans - you can do great one time and not so great others.

 

This event is heavy on the volunteer manpower, with items solicited from the vendors as prizes and rewards for the volunteers at their after party. There really isn't that need to hike the cost so much for regular vendors that aren't drawing power as many of the food vendors do or polluting the space with generators and the like.

 

This event is about everyone in the community, including the small time hobbyists with day jobs, not just those with a business plan and a budget to match.

[Mike K.]

^yes! That's exactly the sentiment I'm hearing. $100 officially makes this event the most expensive for local artisans/vendors, and due to the volume of people it doesn't convert very well (too much to see, too much to draw your attention, and once (or rather, IF) you buy one or two things, you're likely tapped out).

[shoeflack]

^yes! That's exactly the sentiment I'm hearing. $100 officially makes this event the most expensive for local artisans/vendors, and due to the volume of people it doesn't convert very well (too much to see, too much to draw your attention, and once (or rather, IF) you buy one or two things, you're likely tapped out).

 

You must be getting your facts from the same guy that writes Donald Trump's speeches. The Creative Craft Fair at Pearkes, arguable the top craft/artisan fair of the year, charges vendors $440 for the smallest booth size, plus an application fee. That's $150/day. There are others that are just as, if not more pricey.

 

It's absolutely crazy that anyone would suggest $100 is too expensive for an event that draws close to 20,000 people. The value of that many eyes just even glancing at the name of your business is staggering. I get that there are other costs associated with attending, as Dietrich suggests, but those costs go with you to any event you attend, free or not.

 

If you're a good salesperson, you'll easily make your money back. But if you're one of those lazy vendors who sits at their tables waiting for you to come to them, then you shouldn't expect a dime. I'm positive that those are the ones complaining about the fees.

 

Too much to see? Then make people want to see you. Stand out. Be the vendor that draws someones attention. It's business 101. I get that local crafters and artisans aren't business people, but come on. Your excuse for this being too high priced is that there are TOO MANY PEOPLE ATTENDING. Are you serious? Sorry, but I'll take my chances at $100 for 20,000 people.

 

They could charge $200 a table and still get a full slate of businesses.

[Nparker]

It seems to me the increase in vendor fees is an example of free enterprise in action. Popular things cost more than less popular things. Supply and demand. As shoeflack says, $100 is a pittance for anyone with even moderate business acumen.

[Mike K.]

Hold on, the Creative Craft Fair is not a small artisan fair, it's for companies, suppliers, material makers, and artisans with a large volume of stock with larger production capability. There may be the odd small-time exhibitor, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

Comparing the CCF to Car Free YYJ is like comparing the Cannes Film Festival to the Victoria Film Festival.

 

If you're a good salesperson, you'll easily make your money back. But if you're one of those lazy vendors who sits at their tables waiting for you to come to them, then you shouldn't expect a dime. I'm positive that those are the ones complaining about the fees.

 

 

Shoeflack, that's a little harsh. We're not in India here, nobody is going to be heckling people with "good deals, come see come see" to make a few dollars. The event would be pretty lame if even 10% of merchants heckled passersby and pushed their wares.

[shoeflack]

Hold on, the Creative Craft Fair is not a small artisan fair, it's for companies, suppliers, material makers, and artisans with a large volume of stock with larger production capability. There may be the odd small-time exhibitor, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

Comparing the CCF to Car Free YYJ is like comparing the Cannes Film Festival to the Victoria Film Festival.

 

Shoeflack, that's a little harsh. We're not in India here, nobody is going to be heckling people with "good deals, come see come see" to make a few dollars. The event would be pretty lame if even 10% of merchants heckled passersby and pushed their wares.

 

You need to walk around more when you volunteer this year downtown. Car Free YYJ has a far higher ratio of larger "known" business to local vendors than CCF. Here's the exhibitor list from last year. It's a fair comparison Mike. If anything, CCF is the VFF and CFYYJ is Cannes.

 

And I'm not suggesting anyone heckle to make a few dollars. I've walked the full distance twice in both years of Car Free YYJ. There are businesses that stand out and businesses that don't. The ones that stand out are generally the ones playing music, their vendors are outside of the booth interacting with people, they have samples, maybe they have a game going on of some sort. The ones that don't feature, generally, someone sitting at the back of the space in a lawn chair.

 

Pretty easy to tell who in those two scenarios is going to walk away with better sales.

[Mike K.]

Oh, well you've walked the full distance! Twice! If you do it a third time I hear they'll award you with an honorary festival expert badge 

 

Would you want to be approached by 275 individuals all interacting with the crowd and playing music, one after another, after another? I don't think so. This is a community festival/event, it's not a bazaar in the desert.

 

Anyways, my sense is there will be a decrease in small, independent vendors this year. I'm sure their spots will be happily filled by larger organizations and businesses, however.

[shoeflack]

Oh, well you've walked the full distance! Twice! If you do it a third time I hear they'll award you with an honorary festival expert badge 

 

Would you want to be approached by 275 individuals all interacting with the crowd and playing music, one after another, after another? I don't think so. This is a community festival/event, it's not a bazaar in the desert.

 

Anyways, my sense is there will be a decrease in small, independent vendors this year. I'm sure they'll spots will be happily filled by larger organizations and businesses.

 

I'll be sure to get the badge from you. I hear they do it Masters-style. Last year's winner passes it on to the next guy. Only Mike could know the true appetite of the people! He speaks the language of the local artisan, the one he subsequently derides when they oppose development in their carefree worlds of James Bay, Fairfield, and Fernwood.

 

5 stories is too tall! $100 is too much! Welcome to Victoria I guess. Land of the entitled, and the "no one could possibly be more important than me".

[Dietrich]

What do you do, shoeflack?  Are you a crafter or artist of any sort? Participated in any of these events? How about you Nparker? It's easy for you to naysay from the side of a punter walking the strip and quite likely not looking at every single booth.

 

We don't all have games and items that we can offer samples or items that can land you a spot in juried events such as the CCF and warrant those high costs. Not everyone is selling big ticket items, and if you're items are smaller and inexpensive, just breaking even doesn't necessarily make it worth it even if only for exposure. Being out in front of your booth drawing people in doesn't guarantee sales, particularly for art that is really subjective and never of everyone's tastes. I am an artisan that has been at this event the past two years and frankly, $100 for a one day is starting to push it for a one day event that tends to bring more lookie-loos than shoppers. I talk to people 'til I'm blue in the face about my work but it doesn't mean it goes home with them. One thing I've learned is that thousands of people doesn't guarantee thousands or even hundreds of sales and I've done a number of outdoor events. Most want to focus on the entertainment or the food, the kids activities and little shopping is done.  Will I partake this year?  I haven't yet decided.

 

You're both being a tad too harsh on this one.

[VicHockeyFan]

I think that you do have to consider free events like this, compared to a paid-attendance craft fair will be different crowds in terms of buyers.

I also think that if I know the vendor Mike is talking about they sell lower priced items so need to sell lots to make it work.

[shoeflack]

I push this angle because I've seen the other side. I'm not a crafter or artisan as a professional, but I have worked for multiple municipalities and other organizations where my job has been to run vendor fairs. I've literally been the guy going out and selling tables. So I do know a thing or two about what people are willing to pay.

 

And with that, I've dealt with the angry senior who has yelled in my face how moronic I am to have raised the price of his table from $15 to $20. Maybe he doesn't see that the insurance to run such an event is not free. That St. John's Ambulance isn't a free service. That people leave a lot of trash on the ground that needs to be picked up. That bollards and pylons and delineators need to be brought by someone on the clock. That event fencing isn't cheap, and neither are porta-potties. That all those volunteer t-shirts cost money. Shall I go on?

 

Someone has to bear the cost of running an event of this size. And if you aren't charging people to come and walk around, then you sure as hell better charge the people who are going to profit off of them.

 

If you don't want to play the game, then don't. There are more than enough artisans and crafters in this town who will happily pay the $100 to be there. If no one does, then you know the fee was too high, so you adjust next year. If no one shows up, it's because they didn't like the selection of businesses, so you have to adapt.

[Nparker]

...You're both being a tad too harsh on this one.

I really don't think I am being harsh. $100 = $8.33 that needs to be set aside each month to cover the annual vendor fee.

[Mike K.]

Dear shoeflack and nparker:

 

[Nparker]

How about we let the free market decide what a reasonable price is for participating in Car Free Day? I am sure no one on VV wants to see any outside interference keeping the costs artificially deflated.

[VicHockeyFan]

If you want to limit the number of vendors you turn away due to space constraints, then doing that by price increases in the most reasonable way.

[Mike K.]

It's a juried event, as in you must be vetted before you are granted permission to participate. So there is absolutely nothing standing in the way of the DVBA controlling the volume of registrants.

[shoeflack]

Dear shoeflack and nparker:

 

 

No word of a lie, I had one of these this morning! Funny enough, it's not normally my go to chocolate bar. I must have known today would be one of those "I disagree with Mike 10% of the time" kind of days, as opposed to my usual Reese's Peanut Butter Cups "I agree with Mike 90% of the time" days.

 

God damn I love this forum!