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PROPOSED
Crystal Pool and Wellness Centre
Use: commercial
Address: 2275 Quadra Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Urban core
Storeys: 2
The City of Victoria is exploring the option of replacing the aging Crystal Pool Fitness Centre with a modern ... (view full profile)
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Crystal Pool and Wellness Centre project


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#2181 spanky123

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Posted 11 January 2025 - 11:56 AM

^ City staff weren't neutral last time, heck they even hired a 3rd party marketing and promotion firm to try and push a yes vote. Why would they act any differently this time?


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#2182 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 January 2025 - 05:35 AM

Why ask about the pool with all these unknowns?

Is this not backward? Why are Victoria voters having a referendum on Crystal Pool now? How are we to make an informed decision on our future tax bill when no decisions are made on our 2025 tax increases. No decision on our ­municipal bill. No decision on our police bill.

Yet council believes we should decide to add another $240 per household or $650 per business on top of an undecided, but pending, tax increase of 3% to 7%.

Is this good fiscal management? Is this good governance?

 

Bob June

Victoria

 

 

https://www.timescol...t-pool-10072120

 

 

No completed design, but a cost estimate

One of the major cons about the proposed new Crystal Pool is the blatant dishonesty on the total costs. The city site states the design timeline for a new pool is 21 months.

How can anyone set a price before it is even designed? How many thousands have already been spent footering around with designs?

If you are building a garden suite or even a deck, surely you get the design first before you state a final figure. Cut the suit to fit the cloth.

What has the city been doing for the past decade if they have to start designing now and what are all the glorious pictures of the new pool if there is no design?

 

Patrick Murphy

Victoria

 

 

 

      Victoria residents should get a break

Our family lives in a municipality next to Victoria and we often use the Crystal Pool. We would use the planned facility but cannot vote on this issue and, importantly, our property taxes would not increase to help pay for it.

It strikes us as odd that we would be able to use the new facility alongside our friends and neighbours in Victoria but would, in effect, pay less to do so.

Given that Victoria residents would fund the new facility through their taxes, it seems only fair that they receive a discount on access once the new pool is open — whether it’s for day passes, monthly memberships, or yearly passes.

It is a straightforward way to acknowledge the financial contributions of Victoria taxpayers while allowing everyone to enjoy this valuable community resource.

 

Michael Hedlin

Victoria


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 January 2025 - 05:35 AM.


#2183 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 January 2025 - 10:35 PM

Pool helps children learn how to swim

Victoria is a coastal community, meaning children and residents must have strong swimming and water safety skills.

 

Learning to swim is a critical life safety skill that all children should learn at a young age. Across Canada, drowning deaths have sharply increased after the pandemic, as many young children didn’t have the opportunity for swimming lessons.

 

As Victoria considers building a new Crystal Pool, we must remember that local pools are essential for the safety of the community.

 

Children learn to swim here, search and rescue workers use it for training and groups like kayak clubs, canoe clubs and scuba divers use it to develop skills.

 

A municipal pool is not a luxury, it is a critical component to a healthy and safety-aware community. A new pool will help save lives in our region.

 

I’m worried that without a new pool, Victoria children might not have access to the lessons they require to keep safe on the water.

 

 

John Redekopp

Victoria

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...o-swim-10077864

 

 

 

Victoria is a coastal community, meaning children and residents must have strong swimming and water safety skills.

 

 

 

I disagree.  People that do not know how to swim drown due to panic, more than anything else.  All one needs is familiarity with water and being in and around water, and that panic subsides.  Formal swimming lesson are not necessary.

 

 

 

 

The modern orthodoxy is that people should learn to swim because that will make them safer. Less likely to drown. But is that true?

 

A couple of things are blindingly obvious:

 

  • if a person is dropped into the deep end of a swimming pool, or a river, or a harbour, that person is less likely to drown if able to swim;
  • people who know how to swim are far more likely to get into the water than people who do not know how to swim. Further, good swimmers are far more likely than poor swimmers to swim in potentially dangerous waters.

 

 

 

[...]

 

 

 

 

There is other stuff that has been well studied, and is clear. Men are far more likely to drown than women. Young men are more likely to drown than older men. Swimming in cold water is more dangerous than swimming in warm water.

 

Looking at such data as there is on our question, it seems that Huainanzi was right all along. Getting your child to have swimming lessons means that your child is more likely, not less likely, to drown. And so, yes, they are lying to you about this.

 

 

 

https://phenell.word...ikely-to-drown/


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 January 2025 - 10:41 PM.


#2184 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 05:03 AM

As a professional engineer with 35 years experience of leading the planning, design, procurement and construction of major public infrastructure projects including 18 schools, a major regional hospital, a cancer centre, numerous river crossings, highway interchanges and urban freeways worth billions of dollars, I am alarmed by the major inconsistencies between the reports provided to Victoria council on the Crystal Pool replacement and the information provided by the city’s communication staff on the website and at the “pop up” information booths.

 

The public information pegs the cost of the new pool at $209.2 million or $215.9 million and a construction duration of 62 to 67 months depending on location.

 

These are very precise numbers that have no chance of being achieved. The feasibility study identifies that the estimates are Class C or D.

 

The Royal Architectural Institute of Canada describes a Class D estimate as “indicative” with a 20% level of accuracy.

 

The June 7, 2024 staff report to council states “…..cost certainty will only be achieved once the design is complete, the work has been tendered, and construction contracts are secured”.

 

 

 

[...]

 

 

 

Furthermore, there is no mention of the annual capital maintenance and renewal costs for the new pool. For a building of this nature they will be about five per cent of the initial capital cost, i.e. $10 million a year or $300 million over the life of the facility, also to be paid for by Victoria taxpayers.

 

Therefore, the total life cost to Victoria taxpayers will be in the order of $650 million which is more than three times the amount publicized by the city.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-risks-10083902


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#2185 Mike K.

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 07:02 AM

There. Finally someone has said it.

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#2186 Barrister

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 07:54 AM

If teaching children to swim they can do it the same way I did in Toronto, Have a plain outdoor swimming pool. Dont need a fancy fifty meter cold water double pool facility. This is nonsense.



#2187 lanforod

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 08:22 AM

To me, teaching kids to swim is far more about expanding their horizons of things they'll want to do for entertainment than it is for safety. Until they know how to swim well, pool parties, swimming at the hotel, the ocean, the beach, surfing, body boarding, snorkeling, scuba etc etc. are all out of reach.



#2188 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 08:51 AM

I just don’t understand the fascination with such high levels of training though. Once you learn how to tread water and breast stroke and crawl, you’re done. Anybody can learn that without formal lessons.

In fact crawl is optional, really.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 January 2025 - 08:52 AM.


#2189 dasmo

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 09:52 AM

Ya, just going to the pool is enough to cover most. My eldest did not take well to lessons and he is a fine swimmer. Just from going swimming. Training to swim is a fine hobby though. I did as a kid. But it’s not a requirement of a community pool frankly. What’s more important is a space to bring your kids to play, an area to exercise, and a sauna, hot tub general hot cold wellness centre. That can be used by all. Olympic training is elitist and not really for the community. We have that already and I’m sure the facilities are never fully booked for such training.
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#2190 aastra

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 12:33 PM

 

Victoria is a coastal community,

 

Spoiler alert: most of the world's population lives in coastal communities.


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#2191 aastra

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 12:38 PM

 

Getting your child to have swimming lessons means that your child is more likely, not less likely, to drown. And so, yes, they are lying to you about this.

 

People who learn how to ride bikes are much more likely to be injured while riding a bike. People who learn how to use power tools are much more likely to have an accident involving a power tool. People who learn how to cook are much more likely to burn themselves while working at the stovetop.



#2192 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 12:40 PM

All true.

Thanks, truckers!
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#2193 aastra

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 12:54 PM

Go soak your head.*

*No malice intended. I'm assuming you don't know how to swim, so you should be perfectly safe.



#2194 aastra

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 01:10 PM

I gotta say, the illustrations of the Caledonia location in the feasibility study seem appealing to me, if indeed "reconstituted" Central Park were to become ~100% park space after the demolition of the existing building.



#2195 LJ

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 07:44 PM

To me, teaching kids to swim is far more about expanding their horizons of things they'll want to do for entertainment than it is for safety. Until they know how to swim well, pool parties, swimming at the hotel, the ocean, the beach, surfing, body boarding, snorkeling, scuba etc etc. are all out of reach.

Put a life jacket on them and away they go.


Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#2196 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 January 2025 - 04:05 AM

Care about our wellness? Don’t spend our money

 

 

The City of Victoria has announced the details for the referendum on the proposed replacement for the Crystal Pool. Once again, city council has presented us with referendum questions that are biased to get the answer the majority of councillors want.

 

In plain language, the questions for the referendum on the replacement of the Crystal Pool are:

 

1. Do you want us to spend tons of your money on a grandiose new Pool and Wellness Centre or not?

2. Where do you want us to put it?

 

Where is the option of a modest replacement pool suitable and affordable for a city with a population of less than 100,000? I could be in favour of that.

 

As to where to put it, we are offered the choices of North Central Park or South Central Park. The south location would mean the loss of the Steve Nash basketball court, tennis courts, kids playground and picnic area. These are all free, well-used amenities important to the North Park neighbourhood’s wellness.

 

It would also require the destruction of 28 mature London plane and Garry Oak trees also important to the wellness of the city.

 

If council were really concerned with our wellness, they would not burden us with this expensive proposal.

 

Wellness is being able to pay the mortgage or the rent and put food on the table at this time when so many households are feeling economic pressures.

 

 

Barbara Marshall

Victoria

 

 

https://www.timescol...-money-10090203


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2025 - 04:05 AM.


#2197 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 January 2025 - 04:07 AM

The City of Victoria is being somewhat less than transparent regarding the proposed Crystal Pool replacement project. And the so-called “choice” of sites is misleading.

 

The real debate should be about whether we can afford a $215 million “people’s palace.”

 

But the question goes far beyond this, given that budget projections call for tax and utility charge increases that will require ongoing rises in city operating costs of 8.3 per cent per year.

 

Reserves will be drawn down by $47 million to reduce borrowing to $166 million. There is a legal requirement to maintain a set level of contingency reserves.

 

What will be the pool’s effect on the city’s capital reserve account? To what extent can we rely on future development cost charges to replenish Victoria’s reserves?

 

According to internal reports, $700 million is required to update aging infrastructure over the next 20 years and the city is exposed to a further risk of up to $2.3 billion in costs, which have not yet been subject to detailed estimates.

 

A recent report to council said the city has about $48.96 million in outstanding debt and the authorized debt servicing is about 7.5 per cent of the prior year tax levy. If the Crystal Pool replacement is approved, the related debt would increase the total servicing to 15.5 per cent of the prior year tax levy.

 

There has been no public discussion as to how a new Crystal Pool stacks up against other items on the public amenity wish list. For instance, the new central library was promised 20 years ago.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-needs-10090205


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2025 - 04:08 AM.


#2198 Mike K.

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Posted 17 January 2025 - 07:05 AM

A Facebook group created for McKinnon pool claims an FOI has uncovered the repair and maintenance costs of the pool are far lower than UVic claims: https://www.facebook...mibextid=wwXIfr

No documents are shown so it’s impossible to confirm source authenticity.

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#2199 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 January 2025 - 07:11 AM

UVIC should just start a new degree program: large pool facility maintenance

Then just have the students hands on at the pool. Part of the course requirements is to buy certain books, tools, putty and concrete etc.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2025 - 07:12 AM.

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#2200 Matt R.

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Posted 17 January 2025 - 11:50 AM

That’s where I did my commercial pool operators course.
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