1947 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

Why do we need a brand new $3.3M design?  The thing is on a big, flat city-owned piece of land.  Buy the damn plans from another similar North American facility, pay to modify them to suit and away we go.

 

Here's one!

 

  http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-open-1.3942053

 

UBC Vancouver ready to open new $39M aquatic centre

The University of British Columbia has finished building a new pool on its Vancouver campus

 

 

 

 

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 02 December 2017 - 11:40 AM.

[VicHockeyFan]

 

Facility Features

The UBC Aquatic Centre is a state-of-the-art facility that serves athletic training, competition, and neighbourhood leisure needs. The new facility’s natatorium can accommodate nearly 1,000 bathers, and the viewing area in the mezzanine can host up to 460 spectators.

The facility features include:

• 25 metre recreational pool with diving boards and accessible ramp
• 50 metre competition pool with Omega Swiss Timing System Leisure pool and lazy river with accessible ramp
• 34-person family friendly hot tub with accessibility lift
• Steam room and sauna
• Viewing decks and spectator areas
• Men’s, women’s, and universal change rooms
• Meeting room
• Wet classroom

**The UBC Aquatic Centre uses both chlorine and UV purification

Amenities

To better serve all our visitors, the new UBC Aquatic Centre also offers the following:

• Food and beverage kiosk
• Locker rentals and day lockers
• Accessible entrances with power-operated doors
• Accessible washrooms, change rooms, and elevators
• Braille signage

 

 

 

Sounds good, and make sure the builder of that one bids on ours, they have experience that can likely bring a nice, low bid.

[Mike K.]

So is there any way the public can stop this from happening? Have we seriously no recourse here?

The first boondoggle isn’t even finished nor fully budgeted and the mayor wants to follow in Fortin’s footsteps with her own mega-project? How’s this is even allowed to pass the conceptual stage is rather frightening considering what we’ve already got on the table (the bridge, the sewage plant, quickly worsening road conditions, the need to eventually replace the Bay Street Bridge, a fire hall that won’t survive a moderate quake, and so on).

[VicHockeyFan]

Do we know who voted this thing through?  Do we even have as much as a single letter from senior governments about money?

 

Is this the way projects all across the country and province are happening, is everywhere councils spending money on detailed architectural plans (to the tune of $3.3 million) to get their projects in line for all the funding?  Is it written somewhere in senior government funding plans that this is the way to proceed?

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 03 December 2017 - 07:39 AM.

[Bingo]

Why do we need a brand new $3.3M design? 

The thing is on a big, flat city-owned piece of land. 

Buy the damn plans from another similar North American facility, pay to modify them to suit and away we go.

 

Here's one!

 http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-open-1.3942053

 

I agree.

We have already tried brand new designs we built the new bridge that ran way over budget.

If Vancouver can build a new facility for $40 million, why should Victoria pay $20 million more.

[Nparker]

Can the horse even see the cart at this point?

[Cassidy]

There's lots of "big dream" projects across Canada that end with a very expensive set of plans sitting on a shelf (or hard drive), the dream project never to be realized.

 

But because levels of government (even private funders) won't even think of participating in a project of this size without that project being close to shovel-ready, expensive plans are always the first step.

But as noted, the plans are just as often the last step as well.

 

It definitely winds up being a total waste of 3.3 million dollars if the project doesn't move forward (which it probably won't).

I don't think there is a methodology outside of massive public protest to stop anything at this stage of the game, as this kind of thing is back to trusting a City Council simply to make intelligent decisions on behalf of the folks that elected them.

 

In this case, it appears that intelligent decisions aren't happening to the tune of 3.3 million bucks - and there's nothing anybody can do about it except remember it the next time they step into a COV voting booth.

[Nparker]

...I don't think there is a methodology outside of massive public protest to stop anything at this stage of the game, as this kind of thing is back to trusting a City Council simply to make intelligent decisions on behalf of the folks that elected them.

 

In this case, it appears that intelligent decisions aren't happening to the tune of 3.3 million bucks - and there's nothing anybody can do about it except remember it the next time they step into a COV voting booth.

If only I could believe things will actually get better after October 2018.

[Cassidy]

If only I could believe things will actually get better after October 2018.

In politics at every level, it's more often just "different" as opposed to "better"

[VicHockeyFan]

“The guys that are monitoring the market say things are not getting any cheaper. In fact, they are getting even more expensive than what folks were anticipating,” parks, recreation and facilities director Thomas Soulliere said in an interview.

 

Taking market conditions into account, a local expert has pegged the annual cost escalation rate from 2018 onward to be six to eight per cent.

 

That translates to $385,000 to $475,000 a month.

 

Those numbers are one to two per cent higher than initially projected, the staff report says.

 

http://www.timescolo...urge-1.23114050

 

Oh man, that Helps is costing us $385k to $475k a month!  Christ the new #1 firehall must be going up by at least the same amount, why are we not building that damn thing right now?!?!?

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 06 December 2017 - 07:18 PM.

[G-Man]

So if this has a cost of 70 million dollars and upkeep of the current building which seems to be working fine is about 1.1 million a year, that seems like about 63 years of maintenance. Lets just fix what's broken and carry-on. The money we would be saving in interest alone over the next 50 years would likely make my plan a net gain for the city. 

[LJ]

Maintenance is not a legacy though.

[VicHockeyFan]

What else are we losing thousands of dollars on each month by not replacing now?

 

That water can at Beacon Hill?

 

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 06 December 2017 - 07:55 PM.

[spanky123]

http://www.timescolo...urge-1.23114050

 

Oh man, that Helps is costing us $385k to $475k a month!  Christ the new #1 firehall must be going up by at least the same amount, why are we not building that damn thing right now?!?!?

 

Have to love the anonymous "expert". If I recall, when Helps was asked why our pool would cost $69M while similar pools elsewhere were about 1/2 of that she replied that $30M was contingency. So we are to believe that the contingency inflates by 6%-8% a year as well?

[Nparker]

spanky123, on 07 Dec 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

I thought that Helps was trying to use the gas tax grants to fund Crystal Pool...

How are Victoria taxpayers supposed to believe the already overpriced Crystal Pool project will come anywhere within budget based on the most recent CoV infrastructure projects (JSB, bike lanes)? Outside funding or not, there is no way the CP should be allowed to proceed without going to a public referendum.

[sdwright.vic]

Rob Peter, pay Peter.

[Nparker]

Rob Peter, pay Peter.

Unless Peter is the taxpayer, in which case it's rob Peter and rob Peter again.

[Cassidy]

The "new" Crystal Pool will be the next decades "bridge" ... haunting this council, and probably the next two councils that follow it.

And there's still the sewage treatment plant and the remainder of the unbuilt bike lanes to pay for.

 

Where's this money all coming from? ... eventually assorted grants, gas tax and the residents of Victoria property taxes have got to run out.

 

Sewage Treatment - 1.3 Billion

Bike lanes - 15 Million

Crystal Pool - 85 Million (by the time they're done ... and I'm probably low)

New Bridge - 105 Million

 

Of course, none of the above are complete yet, so all the costs referenced will probably be noticeably to significantly higher.

That''s a lot of coin to come up with, and the new Fire Hall isn't even included.

 

We're already at One Billion Five Hundred and Five Million Dollars and still counting!

Edited by Cassidy, 07 December 2017 - 10:49 PM.

[Mike K.]

I think the JSB will tally up at around $115.

Right now the taxation revenue from new residences is quietly being used to prop up spending. But once new housing construction slows today’s mass spending will make an impact.

[Nparker]

...Right now the taxation revenue from new residences is quietly being used to prop up spending...

Not to mention reliance on funding sources entirely beyond the CoV's control, such as the Federal and Provincial governments and things like the gas tax. Watch out Lisa & Co, one of these days Mom and Dad could seriously reduce your allowance and expect you to earn your own keep.