1327 replies to this topic

[rmpeers]

Good Michael Mulligan segment on cfax today. He makes a compelling case for suspension without pay.

I agree with him about the Mayor's lack of leadership on this. I guess sexual harrassment is a terrible thing when Trump does it, but not such a big deal when its one of your employees?

As someone who has witnessed the effects of workplace harrassment on someone close to me, i can assure the mayor that its not something to be casually be dismissed or handled with a secret disciplinary letter.

[aastra]

 

I guess sexual harrassment is a terrible thing when Trump does it, but not such a big deal when its one of your employees?

 

It's standard procedure. People will watch the big news networks and lap up the fear **rn about some murder on the other side of the country or even the other side of the world, but when a brutal murder occurs on Douglas Street it earns nothing but a collective yawn.

 

Nobody cares about their own communities anymore.

[spanky123]

Good Michael Mulligan segment on cfax today. He makes a compelling case for suspension without pay.

I agree with him about the Mayor's lack of leadership on this. I guess sexual harrassment is a terrible thing when Trump does it, but not such a big deal when its one of your employees?

As someone who has witnessed the effects of workplace harrassment on someone close to me, i can assure the mayor that its not something to be casually be dismissed or handled with a secret disciplinary letter.

 

He has been making a compelling case since day one. 

[57WestHills]

Police suspensions for unfounded cases far outweigh suspensions that lead to termination. Stopping pay would prejudice members and find them guilty well before anything near a finding of wrongdoing.

That said, the procedural nonsense here and mismanagement by every involved party here has been so substantial that this is a rare case where I think the Board should try and stop pay & cash benefits now. I'm curious too if there's a end date on his contract and if that even matters? Another area Chief is without contract right now so maybe it's irrelevant.

[spanky123]

So Hinkson has ruled that the OPCC should not have investigated the issues that Helps and Desjardins closed back in December 2015. Why it took him 5 months to reach that conclusion is beyond me but the investigation and disciplinary hearings on the remaining 6 allegations continue.

 

http://www.timescolo...hief-1.15090344

Edited by spanky123, 12 April 2017 - 04:08 PM.

[spanky123]

Police suspensions for unfounded cases far outweigh suspensions that lead to termination. Stopping pay would prejudice members and find them guilty well before anything near a finding of wrongdoing.

That said, the procedural nonsense here and mismanagement by every involved party here has been so substantial that this is a rare case where I think the Board should try and stop pay & cash benefits now. I'm curious too if there's a end date on his contract and if that even matters? Another area Chief is without contract right now so maybe it's irrelevant.

 

The point that Mulligan has been making is that Elsner admitted to sending inappropriate twitter messages to a subordinate's wife. There is no debate or 'unfounded' issue here. There other items are still unresolved but the breach of trust is enough is warrant a suspension of pay until the broader matter is resolved.

Edited by spanky123, 12 April 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[57WestHills]

Yes. That's why I agree.

[spanky123]

I wouldn't at all be surprised if this ruling from Hinkson opens up a whole new avenue of complaint for Elsner. As long as we are paying all of his bills as well as his salary while this issue drags out, why not argue that all of the other investigations were derivatives of the investigation that Helps and Desjardins screwed up.

Edited by spanky123, 13 April 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[Sparky]

What a mess.

[Daveyboy]

When you have incompetent people getting involved and trying to "fix" things this is the usual result.  I am referring to the 2 mayors on the police board who might have meant well but were seemingly totally unaware of the ramifications of their inappropriate actions.  If they had only been willing to ask the right questions of the appropriate professionals, the taxpayers in Victoria would not be witnessing this endless squandering of our financial resources.  Instead, their unthinking arrogance led to this situation....

[rmpeers]

So Mayor Helps is as defensive as ever in the TC piece. Earth to Mayor: I dont think anyone has yet seen anything to see the handling of this as anything other than botched. A secret disciplinary letter, after which you had full confidence in a police chief engaged in bawdy tweeting with the wife of a subordinate officer?

I am no HR genius but did it not occur that this might at the very least have massive potential to create a poisonous workplace for those involved? Not to mention how other employees might feel about the situation. And that's not even factoring in the harrassment and everything else.

Aside from the moral issues at play, its also sickening that our tax dollars continued to be frittered away to pay this man. Ah, another item to add to the laundry list of grievances when our property tax bills arrive...

[spanky123]

So Mayor Helps is as defensive as ever in the TC piece. Earth to Mayor: I dont think anyone has yet seen anything to see the handling of this as anything other than botched. A secret disciplinary letter, after which you had full confidence in a police chief engaged in bawdy tweeting with the wife of a subordinate officer?

I am no HR genius but did it not occur that this might at the very least have massive potential to create a poisonous workplace for those involved? Not to mention how other employees might feel about the situation. And that's not even factoring in the harrassment and everything else.

Aside from the moral issues at play, its also sickening that our tax dollars continued to be frittered away to pay this man. Ah, another item to add to the laundry list of grievances when our property tax bills arrive...

 

Lets not forget that the OPCC has also stated that Helps knew about the alleged sexual harassment and assault at the time of the original complaints as well.

 

Helps was on CFAX today stating that Hinkson's ruling effectively cleared her of any wrongdoing. She also blamed the lawyer they hired stating that they relied on her recommendation in determining that a letter of reprimand was sufficient punishment. I wonder if the lawyer also told them to withhold the information from the other members of the police board and to lie to the public about the investigation in the first place?

[rmpeers]

Listening to the 2 cfax segments, there's a recurring theme emerging here - that the mayor doesn’t really understand what's going on or how the process works.

We have the mayor proclaiming victory and citing Hinkson's ruling as proof that the internal investigation wasnt botched; and then a lawyer comes on to explain that Hinkson's ruling said nothing of the sort.

It's similar to whem the mayor proclaimed that they couldnt stop Elsner's pay and then we had several experts come on and explain "um, yes you can - it's right there in the police act."

As is often the case with Mayor Helps, it appears she's either being dishonest or just genuinely doesnt know what shes doing

Edited by rmpeers, 13 April 2017 - 09:15 AM.

[spanky123]

I notice as well in recent interviews that she gets really defensive right out of the gate. Al Ferraby is about as light a touch as you can get being interviewed, yet Helps had him fumbling words this rmoning.

[PraiseKek]

CFAX claimed the contents of the tweets could now be reported on or at least in general what they were about. Anyone know anything about that? Asking for a friend here.

[spanky123]

CFAX claimed the contents of the tweets could now be reported on or at least in general what they were about. Anyone know anything about that? Asking for a friend here.

 

Didn't hear the CFAX report nor have I seen anything yet regarding the decision on the media access to information request.

[57WestHills]

The publication ban portion was lifted on them. But in the greater context of which organizations control which information I have no idea what that means contextually?

[spanky123]

The publication ban portion was lifted on them. But in the greater context of which organizations control which information I have no idea what that means contextually?

 

I think that what Elsner was seeking, and Helps and Desjardins were supporting, was a sealing of certain documents and messages rather than a publication ban per sey. If you are correct in that the sealing order was rejected then I would think that the process would now be for someone to request the documents (ie Elsner's contract, etc) and then it would be up to the police board and the other organizations which hold those documents to either turn them over or try to delay the process through the OIPC.

[VicHockeyFan]

Some might also ask why it take the TC 500 days to come out with this opinion.

 

Why does the board not simply fire him? Suspend him without pay? Why is the board acting as a group of spectators rather than decision-makers?

 

- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.dsomz1gJ.dpuf

[Rob Randall]

The Board is afraid of firing him because they don't want a long, drawn-out legal battle. Oh, wait...