11627 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

The point is Samsung, LG, (even Blackberry), HTC, Sony and Lenovo didn't have to reinvent the wheel. They just designed a device (a car) and it operates on Android (driving software).

 

The profit maker is Google in this regard, but Google is nowhere on that graph.

[rjag]

https://www.statista...h-quarter-2009/

 

market share graph since 2009

[nagel]

[Mattjvd]

Look carefully at the graph. Hint: it’s not unit sales

I looked carefully and became confused to how Samsung and Apple have a combined 106% market share.

[dasmo]

The Apple graph was profit. As in who makes the most money....
Anyway as this relates to the EV race one reason I am invested in Tesla is they are most like Apple and have the hardware and software IP combined with intense customer loyalty. In fact in Tesla’s case they also see little value in the hardware IP and thus released their patents. In part because they are also into the energy side of this equation both generation and storage. Meanwhile the big players are still managing their global conglomerate of printing press repair and distribution....

[tjv]

how can you compare Samsung to Apple by profit? sure they both make smartphones and tablets, but Apple makes computers and AppleTV while Samsung makes appliances, batteries, shipbuilding, is one of the largest construction companies in the world, is one of the largest life insurance companies in the world, etc, etc, etc

 

That's like me saying Samsung has larger revenues than Apple, so that means.......

 

Comparing that is like Apples to Oranges (no pun intended)

Edited by tjv, 14 November 2018 - 09:54 AM.

[dasmo]

You can compare the two on the simple level of Q2 profits and they are neck and neck and all apple makes are computers and cell phones! 

[Matt R.]

Android devices represent 80% of the smartphone market while Apple's iOS represents a tiny 15%. Even Samsung, which is one out of a gazillion Android-backed smartphone manufacturers, outsells Apple.

But trust Leo to flip open his trench coat full of meaningless statistics

Rude!

[LeoVictoria]

Leo, where did you hear they're burning through 1M of CEV a week?

 

Back of the napkin math.  They put an extra $10M into that fund and it has been dwindling at almost $1M/week.   Seems to have slowed down a bit in recent weeks though since they are still above $4M.   

[nagel]

Back of the napkin math.  They put an extra $10M into that fund and it has been dwindling at almost $1M/week.   Seems to have slowed down a bit in recent weeks though since they are still above $4M.   

Is there an online "counter" of the balance?

[LeoVictoria]

The point is Samsung, LG, (even Blackberry), HTC, Sony and Lenovo didn't have to reinvent the wheel. They just designed a device (a car) and it operates on Android (driving software).

 

The profit maker is Google in this regard, but Google is nowhere on that graph.

 

You're making my point for me.   The people making money are those with the software, not the hardware.   In smartphones the people making the profit are Apple and Google (and Samsung a little bit).   The dozens of other manufacturers of Android smartphones are dominating in terms of unit sales, but the margins are razor thin.  The hardware is a commodity.  

 

My guess is much the same will happen in vehicles but on a slower time scale.   

[LeoVictoria]

how can you compare Samsung to Apple by profit? sure they both make smartphones and tablets, but Apple makes computers and AppleTV while Samsung makes appliances, batteries, shipbuilding, is one of the largest construction companies in the world, is one of the largest life insurance companies in the world, etc, etc, etc

 

That's like me saying Samsung has larger revenues than Apple, so that means.......

 

Comparing that is like Apples to Oranges (no pun intended)

 

That's why the chart says smartphone revenues....  Not dishwasher revenues.

[LeoVictoria]

Is there an online "counter" of the balance?

 

Yes:  https://www.cevforbc.ca/

 

$10M was added Sept 24th.   

[Mike K.]

You're making my point for me. The people making money are those with the software, not the hardware. In smartphones the people making the profit are Apple and Google (and Samsung a little bit). The dozens of other manufacturers of Android smartphones are dominating in terms of unit sales, but the margins are razor thin. The hardware is a commodity.

My guess is much the same will happen in vehicles but on a slower time scale.

The facts suggest otherwise.

Samsung, the guys with no software, took home 10% of the cellphone industry’s profit. Apple, with its software, went home with 14%. Who’s further ahead? The guy with virtually no software R&D walking home with 10%, or the guy with hardware and software R&D walking home with 14%? It’s pretty much a wash, especially when the guy making the software also relies on the 10% guy to make their hardware.

The future is far more cooperative than we might imagine. Operating in a silo worked in the 60’s but in today’s economy mitigating risk and pursuing co-investment is the faster, more stable route to profitability (ie Apple relying on Samsung, Samsung relying on Google, Google relying on Apple and Samsung) and why the big auto manufacturers are in no rush to pursue Tesla while technology is in rapid development mode and best practices continue to change. They’ll act when it’s time to do so.

[dasmo]

Here is what happens to those that wait...

https://youtu.be/A1zzehTOKi0

Edited by dasmo, 14 November 2018 - 01:11 PM.

[Mike K.]

Jesus, what happened to Jimmy Kimmel?

[LeoVictoria]

The facts suggest otherwise.

Samsung, the guys with no software, took home 10% of the cellphone industry’s profit. Apple, with its software, went home with 14%. Who’s further ahead? The guy with virtually no software R&D walking home with 10%, or the guy with hardware and software R&D walking home with 14%? It’s pretty much a wash, especially when the guy making the software also relies on the 10% guy to make their hardware.

 

Samsung has no software?  Funny.  Their version of Android is heavily customized, and their smartwatch OS is entirely their own (Tizen).

 

And where did you get 14% for Apple?  Their profit share is between 60 and 90% depending on the year and source.   https://www.forbes.c...l/#70f230f461bb

[tjv]

Just did a little research on this and Samsung keeps its electronics division separate under Samsung Electronics Co Ltd

 

Samsung Electronics profits in Q3 was $15.4 Billion USD

Apple Q3 profit was $11.5 Billion USD

 

No where does each company specify how much they made just on smartphones.

[rjag]

Interesting post from Jeremy Cato

 

 

 

Three interesting facts from DesRosiers Automotive consultants: 
1. 69.3% of the market is now light trucks, not cars.
2. The expected useful life of a vehicle is now 295,531 km.
3. Total vehicles on the road in Canada: 26,771,802

[tjv]

Interesting, is that the US, US & Canada or the world?