11627 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

Hmmmmmm, Musk is firing a Tesla into space this month.

[LeoVictoria]

Hmmmmmm, Musk is firing a Tesla into space this month.

 

I guess that one is a hybrid then.   Electric/RP1/Liquid Oxygen

[Jackerbie]

I think the next two years will be huge for electric cars. 2018 will be the year that half decent cars come to market and 2019 will be the year people start absorbing them in mass. 

 

Can the supply chain keep up, though? And will the automakers be able to keep costs down? DRCongo seems to be flexing some muscle on cobalt, which has tripled in cost apparently.

[MarkoJ]

Can the supply chain keep up, though? And will the automakers be able to keep costs down? DRCongo seems to be flexing some muscle on cobalt, which has tripled in cost apparently.

 

Hmmm good point, I don't know. I just figure the demand will be there at existings prices.

[lanforod]

Seems to me the limitation will be batteries, for sure. Tesla saw that writing on the wall. Not sure where everyone else will source their batteries, if they don't bring big battery factories online as well; and then of course, there is the raw materials issue.

[Mike K.]

Now's probably a good time to invest in cobalt...

 

Just saying.

[LeoVictoria]

Can the supply chain keep up, though? And will the automakers be able to keep costs down? DRCongo seems to be flexing some muscle on cobalt, which has tripled in cost apparently.

 

Supply and demand will fix this as it always does.   There is no shortage of cobalt, just a lack of incentive to develop the deposits at yesterdays prices.  With prices rising, the resource will be developed.  Also many new battery chemistries reduce the amount of cobalt they use.  

[lanforod]

2016 was a good time to invest in cobalt...

 

Just saying.

 

Fixed that for you.

[LeoVictoria]

And the good news is, Canada has that cobalt

https://www.bloomber...ng-back-to-life

[Mike K.]

Fixed that for you.

 

There are 770 insured electric vehicles on Vancouver Island today compared to 629,230 non-electric vehicles. I suspect there could be a little bit of an upside to cobalt values yet.

[MarkoJ]

There are 770 insured electric vehicles on Vancouver Island today compared to 629,230 non-electric vehicles. I suspect there could be a little bit of an upside to cobalt values yet.

 

Damn those numbers are so so poor. I feel like I am missing something (price aside as I am sure there are 20,000 cars on the island in close price range of the Tesla when you factor in gas savings). Insane performance including poor weather (AWD), I haven't had a single issue in more than two years, I haven't had a single service in more than two years, I haven't had any issues going on trips (supercharger network), etc....and the obvious such as time saved not being at a gas station once a week.

 

I don't know, whenever I see an Audi A7/S7 or Panamera roll by in Victoria I am always like....why???

Edited by MarkoJ, 15 January 2018 - 02:42 PM.

[Mike K.]

Oh, and what's interesting is hybrid vehicle usage has dropped on the Island from 6,500 in 2015 to 5,300 in 2016, a near 20% decline.

 

EV adoption also fell off a cliff in 2016. In 2014 there were 350 EV's followed by 720 in 2015 (106% increase) and 770 in 2016 (7% growth). It'll be interesting to see what 2017 data shows but we'll have to wait for that.

 

I suspect with hybrids once the battery replacement reared its head owners jumped ship or sold their vehicles to dealers that immediately flipped them to Alberta where there's a big demand for rust-free vehicles.

[rjag]

 

 

I don't know, whenever I see an Audi A7/S7 or Panamera roll by in Victoria I am always like....why???

 

Owned an A8L for a year and had a Panny for a loaner and dont understand the Panny but loved my A8L. Perfect car for cruising long distance. It comes down to what you want out of it. I'm sure when you get into that price range they all offer something that gives you the 'fizz'. I think the Tesla is a good car, but a superior car...nope, just different

[m3m]

Owned an A8L for a year and had a Panny for a loaner and dont understand the Panny but loved my A8L. Perfect car for cruising long distance. It comes down to what you want out of it. I'm sure when you get into that price range they all offer something that gives you the 'fizz'. I think the Tesla is a good car, but a superior car...nope, just different

 

Agreed. I would speculate that the reason people buy a $120K Tesla over a $120K german luxury sedan is mostly because of preferring the interesting tech and the lifestyle benefits of owning an electric vehicle over having a true luxury vehicle experienc.  The latter is what many people want in this price segment.  

 

In terms of build quality, materials, and features I find Tesla to be well below their competitors.  Compare a Model S with a loaded 7 series, S Class or A8 and compare a Model X with a Range Rover Autobiography. The difference is noticeable especially in places like the air vents, steering wheel controls, power window controls, etc.  In a tesla, they feel like they could be borrowed from a Toyota.  In the luxury brands they feel commensurate with the price tag. Have you ever felt BMW's ceramic controls?

 

I'm sure it's great to never have to fill up for gas again and be able to go 0-100 in 3 seconds. Everyone else can do that - i'll be enjoying life in my power-adjustable/reclining ventilated back seats of my extended wheel base S-Class with the programmable swedish massage functions, the signature aromatherapy fragrances wafting throughout the cabin while my personal Mercedes concierge arranges my dinner reservations. 

Edited by m3m, 15 January 2018 - 05:20 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

I'm sure it's great to never have to fill up for gas again and be able to go 0-100 in 3 seconds. Everyone else can do that - i'll be enjoying life in my power-adjustable/reclining ventilated back seats of my extended wheel base S-Class with the programmable swedish massage functions, the signature aromatherapy fragrances wafting throughout the cabin while my personal Mercedes concierge arranges my dinner reservations. 

 

Need a cheap date for that dinner?  

[m3m]

Need a cheap date for that dinner?  

 

I'd need a very cheap date.  I'll have spent all my money on the car. 

[rjag]

https://www.reuters....source=facebook

 

 

 

With the world’s top automakers poised to introduce dozens of new battery electric and hybrid gasoline-electric models over the next five years - many of them in China - executives continue to ask: Who will buy all those vehicles?

“We’re all in,” Ford Motor Executive Chairman Bill Ford Jr said of the company’s $11 billion investment, announced on Sunday at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. “The only question is, will the customers be there with us?”

 

 

 

By 2030, Jackson said he expects electric vehicles could account for 15-20 percent of New vehicle sales in the United States.

[jonny]

There are approximately 34 million registered vehicles in Canada. Last year a little over 2 million new automobiles were sold in this country. If you do the math, we are a long ways off from any sort of mass adoption in the neighbourhood of 25-50% of automobiles being electric.

[MarkoJ]

Agreed. I would speculate that the reason people buy a $120K Tesla over a $120K german luxury sedan is mostly because of preferring the interesting tech and the lifestyle benefits of owning an electric vehicle over having a true luxury vehicle experienc.  The latter is what many people want in this price segment.  

 

In terms of build quality, materials, and features I find Tesla to be well below their competitors.  Compare a Model S with a loaded 7 series, S Class or A8 and compare a Model X with a Range Rover Autobiography. The difference is noticeable especially in places like the air vents, steering wheel controls, power window controls, etc.  In a tesla, they feel like they could be borrowed from a Toyota.  In the luxury brands they feel commensurate with the price tag. Have you ever felt BMW's ceramic controls?

 

I'm sure it's great to never have to fill up for gas again and be able to go 0-100 in 3 seconds. Everyone else can do that - i'll be enjoying life in my power-adjustable/reclining ventilated back seats of my extended wheel base S-Class with the programmable swedish massage functions, the signature aromatherapy fragrances wafting throughout the cabin while my personal Mercedes concierge arranges my dinner reservations. 

 

Tesla only has a few buttons and those that it does have are sourced from Mercedes E-Class. My last car was a loaded 435i and it overlapped for one year with the Tesla (I thought the Tesla would break down a few times so I kept the BMW, but it didn't) and driving the two back to back the 435i felt like a pick-up truck. The navigation in the BMW was DOS compared to Windows 15 in the Tesla. The base model S is a 4.3 second car. Combination of lifestyle, techonolgy (over air updates), performance, ride quality is second to none. The sales of the redesigned 7 series are already tanking in the US, primarily due to the Model S imo.

  

As far as Ranger Rover Autobiography....just way too much crap going on. 

 

Shift lever E-Class

 

 

Shift lever Tesla 

 

[LeoVictoria]

EV adoption also fell off a cliff in 2016. In 2014 there were 350 EV's followed by 720 in 2015 (106% increase) and 770 in 2016 (7% growth). It'll be interesting to see what 2017 data shows but we'll have to wait for that.

 

I suspect with hybrids once the battery replacement reared its head owners jumped ship or sold their vehicles to dealers that immediately flipped them to Alberta where there's a big demand for rust-free vehicles.

 

 

Hard to reconcile that with what is out there on the roads.   Campus nissan selling 20-30 leafs a month in Victoria + Motorize about 10-15 so that should be 350-500 Leafs just in Victoria + other dealers + other cars being sold.   Wonder when they release the 2017 numbers.

 

As for hybrids, it's extremely unlikely that a significant percentage of hybrid drivers had to replace their batteries.   There's a reason those things are used for cabs, and it's not because they cost a lot to maintain.