11627 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Ford.

The government loaned Ford less than $6 billion (Chrysler and GM received what, $75 billion?) at a time when capital was literally non existent from private lenders and cash flow was king. The reason why Ford wasn’t bailed out like the bankrupt Chrysler and GM were was that they literally mortgaged the entire company in 2006 for $24 billion in funds. In other words, they sort of lucked out.

[Coreyburger]

Ford

https://globalnews.c...ille-auto-jobs/

https://pm.gc.ca/eng...tain-almost-800

https://www.thestar....dsor-plant.html

 

That was just on the quick Google search. If I had actually studied it I could have found a lot more

[tjv]

Can anyone name a surviving automaker in history that didn't receive any government subsidy or bailout? 

True, but most large corporations get some form of subsidies to open a new plant, etc.  How much do you think Amazon is going to get for HQ2?

[Mike K.]

https://globalnews.c...ille-auto-jobs/
https://pm.gc.ca/eng...tain-almost-800
https://www.thestar....dsor-plant.html

That was just on the quick Google search. If I had actually studied it I could have found a lot more

Those aren’t bailouts, Corey.

The government invests in companies that in turn invest in innovation and create jobs, and that is not a “subsidy” in the negative (faux support of an enterprise) sense. Sort of like how Canadian governments invest in cycling infrastructure to help spur cycling use, governments invest monies into Canadian innovation initiatives to create long term, well paying jobs and made-in-Canada solutions to the unique needs of this country.

[On the Level]

Those aren’t bailouts, Corey.

The government invests in companies that in turn invest in innovation and create jobs, and that is not a “subsidy” in the negative (faux support of an enterprise) sense. Sort of like how Canadian governments invest in cycling infrastructure to help spur cycling use, governments invest monies into Canadian innovation initiatives to create long term, well paying jobs and made-in-Canada solutions to the unique needs of this country.

 

Except there is a balance.  Upfront investment is fine, but it's a game.  There is a reason why Alberta is the only province that has gone bankrupt and may do so again.    Why does the public pay to finish a business venture unless the market is socialist?

 

 

 

Alberta faces $8.6B bill to clean up old oil wells. 

http://business.fina...oid-it-c-d-howe

 

Anyways, back on topic....

[dasmo]

^are you really asking this question or are you being sarcastic?

Sarcasm

[Mike K.]

The issue with Alberta is it failed to create the necessary regulations to avoid such problems. But the cost is not to be borne by the province alone, it’s industry and the province that’s on the hook. I suspect they’re working on regulations now that will kick in in time for the next boom. The article linked does a good job of explaining the situation.

[Mike K.]

A massive recall is affecting half of Tesla’s manufactured vehicles.

The issue involves steering column bolts corroding in winter conditions on vehicles built prior to April 2016.

The news was first reported after markets closed on the 29th. This could send the stock down to the low $200’s come Monday morning.

[sebberry]

^ And Ford is recalling 1.4 million cars for steering wheels that might come off.

 

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts on the Gen II Chevy Volt? Asking for a friend.  (Seriously, I don't want one)

[Rob Randall]

'Tesla said Friday that one of its Model X SUVs that was in a fatal crash earlier this month was in Autopilot mode when it hit a barrier and was subsequently struck by other cars, according to the WSJ."

[sebberry]

And the driver also ignored repeated warnings to put his hands back on the wheel. 

 

I wonder why the car hit the barrier.  Another example (like the Uber death) of pretty basic operation of automated systems gone horribly wrong.

[Coreyburger]

Those aren’t bailouts, Corey.

 

Except the research I have read about these sorts of "investments" is decidely mixed - let alone the winner/loser problem it creates. Which companies should be financially support? Which ones shouldn't we? Those as much value statements as they are economic statements and as we see with things like pipelines, the country doesn't exactly agree on what is a good investment and what isn't.

[MarkoJ]

A massive recall is affecting half of Tesla’s manufactured vehicles.

The issue involves steering column bolts corroding in winter conditions on vehicles built prior to April 2016.

The news was first reported after markets closed on the 29th. This could send the stock down to the low $200’s come Monday morning.

 

Just got the email...my Tesla is built prior to April 2016. Going to suck if I have to take it over to Vancouver.

 

I believe Bosch is paying for the expenses associated with the re-call.

 

I have to make a gut call on whether to buy the stock before Q1 results are released or wait. The VIN numbers new model 3 owners are getting based on the Tesla Forums are still under 10,000 so production is still slow.

Edited by MarkoJ, 31 March 2018 - 10:46 AM.

[Mike K.]

It’s got historic support at ~$190 so we can assume if it continues to slip it will drop to there. If it breaks that support next step is $150. I’d be overly cautious at this point.

[lanforod]

All the short selling this week, with bad news breaking at the end of the week stinks of insider trading.

[LJ]

And the driver also ignored repeated warnings to put his hands back on the wheel. 

 

I wonder why the car hit the barrier.  Another example (like the Uber death) of pretty basic operation of automated systems gone horribly wrong.

The driver had made 7 previous complaints to Tesla that the car would always veer toward the barricade on that stretch of road.

My question is "why the heck would you not have your hands on the wheel and not on autopilot?"

[LJ]

 The VIN numbers new model 3 owners are getting based on the Tesla Forums are still under 10,000 so production is still slow.

Apparently production is about 1100 vehicles a month, with all those down payments some people are going to be waiting a very very long time before they ever get in the drivers seat.

[LeoVictoria]

Just got the email...my Tesla is built prior to April 2016. Going to suck if I have to take it over to Vancouver.

I believe Bosch is paying for the expenses associated with the re-call.

I have to make a gut call on whether to buy the stock before Q1 results are released or wait. The VIN numbers new model 3 owners are getting based on the Tesla Forums are still under 10,000 so production is still slow.

The steering column bolts corrode in winter weather, and when they fail you apparently lose power steering. Hardly seems like a must do recall.

Model 3, Bloomberg anticipates productions is currently in burst of 2000/week at the moment but who knows if it’s sustainable.

https://www.bloomber...-tesla-tracker/

Edited by LeoVictoria, 31 March 2018 - 08:03 PM.

[LeoVictoria]

As for the death, it is bad news for Tesla for sure. Yes the guy should have been paying attention and the crash barrier was not repaired as it should have been but still one should expect autopilot not to steer you into a wall.

This crash and the Uber crash has started the conversation of how many deaths we will tolerate from autonomous driving cars (even if the Tesla was not actually autonomous). Perhaps regulators will tighten the regs in response.

[LJ]

What's the point of hydrogen fuel cells if it takes huge amounts of fossil fuels to extract it and alternative methods are way off in the future?

Apparently it doesn't take huge amounts of fossil fuels, 30% are from renewables, solar etc. as well as nuclear.

The cost is a couple of cents higher than gas, about $16 a kilogram, normal car uses 5 kilograms or less for a range of 300 miles or so.

A lot of their applications are for forklifts and other machinery working in food warehouses and the like where you can't have noxious emissions. They are preferred over electric vehicles because you can refill them in 3 minutes and you get the same output for the entire tank while battery operated equipment performance drops off as the battery winds down. With electric machines you either have to swap out battery packs or swap out the equipment mid day increasing your capital costs.

The port of Los Angeles, and others requires ships to turn off their main diesel engines prior to entering port. Many ships have installed hydrogen motors that allow them to maneuver in and out of the port with zero pollution and they can also run the ships electric system while docked running the hydrogen motors so they don't have to rely on shore power.

It was an interesting discussion.