11576 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Whut? The guy shows the gap in the trunk, the glued on “cat paw” to avoid wind rattles when fully up, and a window rattle in the drivers side door when the window is rolled down.

He also shows there’s no way to pop the trunk without a serious performance involving a battery in the event the interior control screen isn’t working, and that rear passengers have no mechanical way to open the doors if the electrical system is damaged. Then he went on about the issues first responders will have if they need to cut power to the vehicle following an accident. Fairly reasonable critique, and that was just at the surface of their tear down.

I don’t doubt the guy is a GM/Ford fan, but c’mon, uneven gaps? Rattles? That’s not reassuring.

[Mike K.]

The EPA is also working to claw back Obama-era CAFE regulations requiring manufacturers meet average fleet MPG’s in the 50’s by the mid-2020’s. The EPA says the mandate is totally unrealistic and politically motivated.

This won’t bode well for Tesla over the near and medium term.

[rjag]

Dude we all laughed at the 70-year old guy in that tear diwn video here last month; it was linked.

That’s all you got?

Same article:

Perhaps the reason could be provided by Jalopnik, however, which reported that Munro & Associates’s most prolific clients are GM, Ford, and Chrysler, otherwise known as the Big Three of the legacy American auto industry.

 

Haha, yup because that '70 year old guy' has forgotten more than you or I will ever learn in our lifetimes about automotive design and manufacturing processes..... http://leandesign.co...o/sandy-munro/ 

 

He has also lectured at University of Michigan, Stanford, Purdue, University of Rhode Island and other universities. Sandy is the NASA Chairman of the Michigan Small Aircraft Transportation System (MI SATS), a board member for NCAM (National Council for Air Mobility), a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, Society of Manufacturing Engineers and the Engineering Society of Detroit.

 

 

 

 

 

In 1978, Sandy joined Ford Motor Company and shifted roles from machine tool and automation Chief Engineer to manufacturing engineer. After several projects where he helped increase productivity on several engine assembly lines, he was promoted to Senior Automation World Wide Specialist, where he supervised installation and development of new, more productive engine manufacturing lines and rewrote many of the Ford Machine Tool Specifications.

 

So, based on those credentials, who are we to criticize what he says when it comes to inspecting a car?

 

Maybe they are his most prolific clients because he has something of value to contribute to automotive design and manufacturing....but then again....hes just some 70 year old guy....

Edited by rjag, 02 April 2018 - 08:46 PM.

[MarkoJ]

It is a stupid review by the old guy as a lot of his points are just total non-sense so he immediately loses credibility with me. Like the door handles....I played around with the Model 3 in Vancouver and the door handles work really well for me with one hand.

 

The load on the trunk? lol......I can't remember a thing for opening/closing the trunk in Vancouver so obviously a non-factor....and if it is such an important factor just get a model s (power tailgate).

 

I think the interior in the model 3 sucks for a 50k+ car but don't agree with the old guy's assessment.

Edited by MarkoJ, 02 April 2018 - 10:41 PM.

[LeoVictoria]

Who knows. I don’t own one and have heard both that it is extremely well put together and that it’s very poorly put together depending on the source.
Only know that both the Model S and especially X had catastrophic reliability at the beginning but now they are quite good (Model S is above average rated from consumer reports now) so it seems they can figure it out.

What matters is whether expensive parts will be reliable or whether they will fail. Panel gaps are obsessed over way too much in my opinion. Looking at the panel gaps on the Toyota RAV4 here and they are wildly inconsistent as well. Seems like a non issue for most people.

[LeoVictoria]

Driving the Leaf up to the interior in a couple weeks. No reason to, I could take the fossil car but I’m in no rush so will be for entertainment purposes only. Will test out some of the fast charge infrastructure on the way and enjoy the scenery in our beautiful province.

[VicHockeyFan]

Haha, yup because that '70 year old guy' has forgotten more than you or I will ever learn in our lifetimes about automotive design and manufacturing processes..... http://leandesign.co...o/sandy-munro/




So, based on those credentials, who are we to criticize what he says when it comes to inspecting a car?

Maybe they are his most prolific clients because he has something of value to contribute to automotive design and manufacturing....but then again....hes just some 70 year old guy....

Further reading indicates the 70 year old has now acturally driven the car and has changed his opinion.

Munro recently spent some drive time behind the wheel of the Tesla Model 3 and his take on the car is now entirely different. Yes, there are still build quality issues, but the Model 3 impresses on the drive side.

https://insideevs.co...-90s-kia-video/

[Mike K.]

Build quality issues, but the car is fun to drive, still means there are build quality issues.

[VicHockeyFan]

Most users say build quality has improved. For little things like door handles.

[spanky123]

Only know that both the Model S and especially X had catastrophic reliability at the beginning but now they are quite good (Model S is above average rated from consumer reports now) so it seems they can figure it out.

 

You have it backwards. The S originally received Consumer Report's highest rating and that was then lowered due to reliability issues.

[LeoVictoria]

You have it backwards. The S originally received Consumer Report's highest rating and that was then lowered due to reliability issues.

No, I’m talking about their reliability score. “Consumer Reports has changed their reliability ratings multiple times on the Model S. Originally, Model S reliability was “average,” then temporarily dropped to “below average” when Tesla had a batch of drive unit failures which prompted service trips for many owners. (...) Consumer Reports has released their latest reliability rating for the Model S, upgrading its rating from “average” to “above average.” This is the first time Tesla has received an “above average” rating from Consumer Reports.“

[LeoVictoria]

so Production at 2000/week (at least in burst)
Deliveries up 40% from last year
No anticipated capital raise this year
Stable model 3 reservations

Maybe time to buy some stock Marko

[Mike K.]

Jesus, I’ve never seen such an affinity for questionable quality.

Tesla has a loyal following and enjoys a massive tech industry presence. But for gosh sakes, they can’t meet their own targets, their vehicles are not meeting expectations and the computer technology that gave the cars an edge has come under scrutiny.

...and yet? We’re to praise them for operating at 40% capacity, brush aside friggen gaps as no big deal, and call bad design nothing more than an old man’s musings? Dudes and dudettes, maybe it’s time to put down the Kool-Aid and ride this out?

[rjag]

so Production at 2000/week (at least in burst)
Deliveries up 40% from last year
No anticipated capital raise this year
Stable model 3 reservations

Maybe time to buy some stock Marko

 

http://business.fina...source=Facebook

 

 

The company led by Elon Musk built 2,020 Model 3 cars in the last seven days, trailing its target for a 2,500-unit rate for the final week of March. Tesla delivered 8,180 of the sedans in the first three months of the year, missing analysts’ average estimate for about 8,800 units in a Bloomberg News survey.

 

8180 units in 13 weeks is 630 a week...8800 units in 3 months is 677 a week

 

He had to say no need for a capital raise at tis point as that's about the only leverage he has over the markets...ie 'he's confident of the targets etc etc'

 

I'll call it here, if he doesn't meet them by the next quarter and show that the numbers are stable, the stock will tank...this is like dot com all over again where folks ignore the fundamentals. He's not making money and is not meeting and has never met his targets that he used as a reason to raise so much cash.

[rjag]

 

The company led by Elon Musk built 2,020 Model 3 cars in the last seven days, trailing its target for a 2,500-unit rate for the final week of March. Tesla delivered 8,180 of the sedans in the first three months of the year, missing analysts’ average estimate for about 8,800 units in a Bloomberg News survey.

 

Forgot to factor in the 2020 burst for the final week.

 

If you remove that 2020 from the 8180 = 6160 / 12 weeks instead of 13 the number becomes 513

 

8800 - 2020 = 6780 / 12 weeks = 565

 

So apart from an 'ALL HANDS ON DECK' week where they barely went over 2000, they are nowhere near the needed number.

 

I would also wonder about the quality control over those last 2000 cars compared to the prior weeks. 

[Mike K.]

A lot of people view the company as an auto manufacturer that provided a product which met demand. These are the people who view the quality of the most recent builds and shake their heads while silently hoping Tesla gets its act together. But they make no apologies nor do they have blind allegiance to the brand.

 

But then you have the folks who view Tesla as the vehicle of the environmentalism/global warming movement that serves not as a technological advancement but more-so as the logo of a movement hoping to serve a death blow to the fossil fuel/established automobile industry. The success of Tesla to this group of followers equates with the success of a political outlook and agenda. In other words, Tesla's failures are the failures of something far larger than any one tech company/vehicle manufacturer.

[rjag]

It's definitely going to drive itself to the shop.  

 

 

"In two years you'll be able to summon your car from across the country," Musk said. "If your car is in New York and you are in Los Angeles, it will find its way to you."

http://finance.yahoo...-202858960.html

 

Not a knock against Leo but the quote from Musk from Jan 2016. Its statements like this that will bite him. He implies something that he has no control over in order to manipulate markets. This is the Koolaid speaking.

 

So here we are, a bit over 2 years later....hows that working out?

 

As an aside, its interesting reading the original comments on this thread and comparing to a few years later how they are playing out. April 2016 I was calling about his production issues....still not resolved.

[jonny]

But quality has been compromised since late 2017. Model 3's are being delivered with nasty gaps and sub-standard components are being installed despite the company being aware that they may break/be defective shortly after delivery. And these were issues when they were rolling out 500 vehicles per week.

 

 

https://www.consumer...-they-stack-up/

[VicHockeyFan]

People want different cars for different reasons.  

 

Cadillac is at the bottom of that list (I'd guess Lamborghini and McLaren are lower) but hey, nobody says "you own a crappy Cadillac".

[Mike K.]

But the difference is nobody will look you in the eye and hold up Cadillac as some vestibule of modern automotive quality and engineering.

These new Teslas are lame ducks like Cadillacs in terms of quality. But here we are...