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#41 phx

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:35 PM

 listing a property at a price you will not sell it for is very misleading.  

Buyers need to determine fair value for themselves. If they can’t do that, they’ll be screwed.

 

Price baiting is a trap for some, but merely a waste of time for most buyers.


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#42 Mike K.

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 04:51 AM

that would not happen in my scenario as no sane seller or agent would risk listing it that low. they'd list at $995,000.

look i'm no fan of regulation. willing buyer and willing seller and all. fill your boots on private sales. but for listed, advertised prices, it's insane that the Realtor can list and advertise at $750,000 with ZERO intention of selling at that price. we would not accept that at airlines, at Walmart, or even at the car dealership etc. SELL for the price you listed it at, or take offers under and up to the list price. the current system and with its blind bids is super shady.

I’m not sure I agree your scenario is the solution. Now we’re in a reverse scenario where listing too low is a concern, so you have $700,000 condos listing for $995,000? That wound decimate trust in the market overnight, and the re-sale market would look manipulated compared to the pre-sale market.

Last night I got a text. Friend’s partner listed her house, and I told him it’s $500k under-valued. He said yeah she knows, they’re hoping to get x. So agents are ‘willingly’ and completely consciously aware that they’re listing absurdly low.

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#43 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 05:54 AM

i do not suggest for one minute my plan will bring down prices.   it might in fact raise them.  it would just bring some transparency to the industry.

 

but you understand the kind of "blind bidding" that goes on right?

 

the selling Realtor can not tell the listing Realtor that has submitted an offer what his offer has failed by.

 

So listing realtor has three offers come in on his $775,000 listing:

 

$795,000

$812,000

$817,000

 

he cannot by law tell any of them what the other offers are.  and can and often will refuse all three offers, and then ask the bottom two to "raise their bids" but he cannot tell them by how much.

 

it's very very shady.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 November 2021 - 05:55 AM.


#44 Mike K.

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 05:59 AM

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

In the example I gave above, the home will sell for half a million more and everyone involved knows it. The top bids will land $10-20k between each other. So why even play this game? List for what you want to get, and see what happens.

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#45 Szeven

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 08:02 AM

The real estate association could adopt an electronic auction system to make everything transparent. Every real offer price goes into the system for all Realtors to see, and sellers only see the conditions. Seller can accept any offer at any time.
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#46 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 08:04 AM

The real estate association could adopt an electronic auction system to make everything transparent. Every real offer price goes into the system for all Realtors to see, and sellers only see the conditions. Seller can accept any offer at any time.

 

they could.

 

of course there are some flaws with any system though.  mainly, that not every $850,000 sale is the same.   closing date and conditions can be all over the place.  which makes them a bit harder to easily evaluate against one another.



#47 Mike K.

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 08:18 AM

Conditions are a huge part of it, for sure.

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#48 rambaldi

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 09:09 AM

From the Cooling Off Periods and Consumer Protection news release:
 
For those seeking to provide input, you may email coolingoff@bcfsa.ca. All communications received will be forwarded to the Ministry of Finance for consideration.

Edited by rambaldi, 06 November 2021 - 09:11 AM.


#49 Szeven

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 10:24 AM

they could.

of course there are some flaws with any system though. mainly, that not every $850,000 sale is the same. closing date and conditions can be all over the place. which makes them a bit harder to easily evaluate against one another.


At least it would show people the ballpark the other bidders are in. I've heard too many stories of sellers saying the bids on their house are like 950, 975, and then and then someone panic offering 1.1. It's so unnecessary to have a system that encourages outliers. So much fear and anxiety surrounding such an important decision is disgusting imo.

#50 Mike K.

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 10:30 AM

Oh it’s gnarly, for sure. And sometimes the seller has an agent who is a rude, uncooperative and little short of a conniving force as part of their game to exert maximum pressure on the buyer. Sometimes the agent the buyer is working with is wise to their games, but many are not. That’s where choosing an agent with experience is crucial.

Alternatively buyers should get more into the habit of researching off-market deals, like the pros do. Have an eye for a house? Write the owner a letter. You’d be surprised how motivating that can be for someone who has spent a year humming and hawing about their next step.

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#51 phx

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 10:34 AM

An open bidding process is subject to shill bidding. A buyer still needs to determine fair value and be prepared to walk away if they can’t get it for that price.



#52 Szeven

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 11:17 AM

An open bidding process is subject to shill bidding. A buyer still needs to determine fair value and be prepared to walk away if they can’t get it for that price.


If you have to put up a 20k deposited to bid that should eliminate a lot of it. If you bid 9999k on my house I take your 20k immediately, you back out. Thank you, next.

#53 JohnsonStBridge

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 01:14 PM

The real estate association could adopt an electronic auction system to make everything transparent. Every real offer price goes into the system for all Realtors to see, and sellers only see the conditions. Seller can accept any offer at any time.

 

That would require the real estate association to be interested in providing value to their clients.



#54 davidN

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 01:19 PM

An open bidding process is subject to shill bidding. A buyer still needs to determine fair value and be prepared to walk away if they can’t get it for that price.

Agreed.

 

The majority of the comments on this thread place the onus on the Seller to handle the problem of over bidding. It's not the Seller's problem. As long as we live in a free market system it is on the buyer to determine fair market value. 

 

I fully expect that people will take advantage of the conditions in the marketplace (that are driven by a lack of product) and ask the maximum. If a Buyer feels that the price or the process is onerous then step aside and don't participate.

 

No one was lobbying for the Seller who had to take a hit during the real estate crash of 2009 - 2012 and couldn't find a buyer anywhere. Why is anyone lobbying for the  Buyers now?  FYI there was over 4000 +/- listing in 2012. You could name your terms as a Buyer . Now you can't. Life changes and roles reverse. Such is the free market system


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#55 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 01:30 PM

I agree with you in principle David.

I’m the last guy that usually wants government intervention.

But there is no business as shady as real estate. Practices that would get other retailers or service providers run out of town.

Yet the system persists for some reason.

#56 davidN

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 05:59 PM

I agree with you in principle David.

I’m the last guy that usually wants government intervention.

But there is no business as shady as real estate. Practices that would get other retailers or service providers run out of town.

Yet the system persists for some reason.

Can't disagree entirely BUT as big a problem as aggressive agents and aggressive pricing is, there is the other end.

 

"Part time" agents who have no interest in really working hard. In this market they make $20,000 +/- a sale no matter if they are the buyers agent or the sellers agent. One or two sales a year and that will supplement their pension and gives them tax write offs. They do no one any favours other than themselves. 

 

The real estate industry has done great job of "frightening" the general; public inot dealing with them. Me - I can find my own property on line then call my lawyer to safeguard my transaction. The agents are a hindrance not a help in many cases OR i deal only with proven , experienced agents who have track records that are  traceable. No agents that are references from friends or family for me..


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#57 spanky123

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 06:33 PM

No one was lobbying for the Seller who had to take a hit during the real estate crash of 2009 - 2012 and couldn't find a buyer anywhere. Why is anyone lobbying for the  Buyers now?  FYI there was over 4000 +/- listing in 2012. You could name your terms as a Buyer . Now you can't. Life changes and roles reverse. Such is the free market system

 

The problem is that we have been conditioned to believe that any hardship in life is someone else's fault and the Government must step in to regulate the problem.


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#58 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 06:41 PM

The problem is that we have been conditioned to believe that any hardship in life is someone else's fault and the Government must step in to regulate the problem.

 

"False advertising" laws have a pretty high acceptance rate.  Probably 90%+.  Nobody thinks you can/should advertise a $350 flight that actually costs $600, after a whole bunch of super fine print.   Real estate ads do not even contain fine print about the actual price being potentially higher.  Even with Craigslist ads that say "$150 or best offer", it's generally accepted that $150 cash takes the item today.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 November 2021 - 06:44 PM.


#59 LJ

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 06:46 PM

You make the best deal you can at the time and don't cry or rejoice over it later.


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Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#60 Mike K.

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 07:42 PM

Can't disagree entirely BUT as big a problem as aggressive agents and aggressive pricing is, there is the other end.

"Part time" agents who have no interest in really working hard. In this market they make $20,000 +/- a sale no matter if they are the buyers agent or the sellers agent. One or two sales a year and that will supplement their pension and gives them tax write offs. They do no one any favours other than themselves.

The real estate industry has done great job of "frightening" the general; public inot dealing with them. Me - I can find my own property on line then call my lawyer to safeguard my transaction. The agents are a hindrance not a help in many cases OR i deal only with proven , experienced agents who have track records that are traceable. No agents that are references from friends or family for me..


But the buyer or seller might not want to deal with you directly.

There’s so much emotion in residential real-estate sales that the agents acting on your behalf can be a real asset, and same for the agent representing the other party.

But like Watcher says, the regulations are so loose that there can be shenanigans without recourse.

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