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The Yates on Yates
Uses: condo, commercial
Address: 848-852 Yates Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 20
Condo units: 122 (1BR, 2BR, 3BR, 2BR + den)
Sales status: sold out / resales only
The Yates on Yates is one of two 20-storey residential towers on a property spanning the 700-blocks of Yates a... (view full profile)
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[Downtown] The Yates on Yates | Condos; commercial | 20-storeys | Under construction


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#941 KdogK

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 04:34 PM

therbuns, on 13 Mar 2021 - 8:37 PM, said:snapback.png

Man, I was so excited about the design of this building when it was first revealed. It reminded me of the terraced designs of art deco buildings. Sadly, the finished product of both towers is really aesthetically disappointing. First, the aligned stone cladding at its base it not a good look, and all the slight alignment flaws are only accentuated by the choice of stone, which is extremely porous and shows moisture absorption almost constantly. Then, going up the tower, the yellow-cream brick they chose clashes both with the gray stone, and the white panelling above, bringing out too much of the yellow hue, and making it stand out in an ugly way. Finally, the smaller windows on the upper floors make the building look squeezed and prison-like, and it doesn't help that it's topped with the most dull, textureless gray cladding possible.  

 

Ultimately this building, to me, is both dull and exremely clashy/busy at the same time. 

Yes, it is a new low for a city that prides itself with some of the nicest architecture in Western Canada: namely the Empress & Legislative Building.

 
 
I think they look great! I also believe they designed these 2 buildings to fit in with the future buildings that will erect around them.. They stand out now but will be well respected as the neighbourhood grows around them. Nice job!!


#942 Jackerbie

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 08:18 AM

Chard has formally requested a relaxation of the mid-block walkway SRW. Sounds like they want the ability to restrict access via security gates until the City is able to secure a legal right-of-way on the neighbouring property (836 Yates) as originally intended.

 

Letter from Chard here: https://tender.victo...721155234030057


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#943 G-Man

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 06:42 PM

They already tried to mix the walkway and were turned down. The city really needs to start enforcing and ticketing offenses when there is non-compliance on a SRW. The one across the street is brutal.
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#944 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 05:22 AM

lots of garbage on both sides here.



In a letter to residents of the new development, its strata council expressed concern that maintaining public access to the narrow walkway creates a safety issue and health hazard, citing “COVID outbreaks happening across social-housing facilities making social distancing ­impossible”

Michelle Dunham, who owns a townhome in the new development, is worried there’s not enough space for people to pass each other on the walkway, which is confined by patios on one side and a gate on the other.

She said she’s concerned about what would happen if there were a conflict in the small space.




just say what it is. and those who don’t want to use the path don’t have to if it’s a “health” hazard.

https://www.timescol...path-1.24362518

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 October 2021 - 05:22 AM.


#945 aastra

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 09:23 AM

 

If you have big really, really long blocks and people can’t get through, it really isolates neighbourhoods,” said ­Vivian, who has lived in the Johnson Street building for 10 years.

The Chard development replaced a parking lot, where residents could easily cut through, Vivian said.

 

Post-1945 Victorians were being very sensitive & considerate when they were knocking down buildings and inserting strategically-placed surface parking lots all over downtown. It really enhanced the pedestrian realm. But now that pleasant atmosphere is being eroded.

 

Seriously though, why oh why does nobody ever hold the CoV accountable for how they've managed this program? It makes no sense to be arbitrarily advocating for mid-block passages if there are no clear standards re: how the passages should look and feel or how they're going to be managed. And it makes no sense to stubbornly refuse to learn lessons from past examples. This controversy was 100% predictable:
 

 

Posted 09 June 2017

I hate to be such a stinker about this project but doesn't it seem like they phoned in the design of those townhouses? It's as if the city has advocated for these mid-block passages while never really coming to terms with why they're doing it. What's the point If there are no meaningful standards for the environments within? Shortcuts for the sake of shortcuts?

The passages need to be attractive (dare I say it, "hidden gems") so that they get a regular flow of traffic, so that the user gets rewarded for entering, and so that residential and/or commercial uses might actually be able to succeed within them. I'm making a distinction here between mid-block passages as merely serviceable shortcuts as versus mid-block passages as instruments for enhancing the downtown environment. The "serviceable shortcut" aspect should be way down on the list of concerns. Heck, it shouldn't even be a concern at all.

Era and the Hudson did it right. The passages need to have personality or else they're pointless. If a passage lacks personality then all you've done is accommodated that small number of people who used to cut through the parking lot. Accommodating such people should be a concern for city planners? Give me a break. Anyway, I'll be surprised if these passages on the 800-block aren't duds.

 

On this very board we've been talking about the fundamental issues for years. Suffice it to say, the inviting & activated commercial/residential lane tends to work, whereas the narrow & isolated sinister shortcut tends to have problems. It's as if somebody in officialdom is determined to prove that the narrow & isolated sinister shortcut can work. "See? This particular narrow & isolated sinister shortcut has turned out to be a roaring success! Despite all of its very obvious issues and shortcomings!"


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#946 magmazing

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 10:59 AM

It's not just the public that's not allowed to use the walkway right now. The gates are locked to everyone except the townhome owners from 5pm to 9pm.  Vivid owners were supposed to have 24/7 access with our key fobs and be able to enter the building through the midblock door that is also the closest access to Vivid's main bike room. Now Vivid owners can't enter through that door at all.  There was some heated discussion about that between some Vivid owners and strata council during the combined AGM a couple months ago.


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#947 sebberry

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 11:25 AM

 Now Vivid owners can't enter through that door at all.  There was some heated discussion about that between some Vivid owners and strata council during the combined AGM a couple months ago.

 

What do the Strata's bylaws say about it?  It's not up to council to keep it closed off to certain owners.


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#948 Mike K.

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 11:47 AM

The walkway between Fort Street and the View Street parkade now closes at 4PM.


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#949 aastra

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 12:04 PM

 

Vivid owners were supposed to have 24/7 access with our key fobs and be able to enter the building through the midblock door that is also the closest access to Vivid's main bike room. Now Vivid owners can't enter through that door at all.

 

The situation you're describing really confirms the severe dissonance within this broader program. Maybe the ideal mid-block passage would be the one that nobody is allowed to use? It's crazy.



#950 aastra

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 12:22 PM

 

Maybe the ideal mid-block passage would be the one that nobody is allowed to use?

 

"In order to make downtown more people-friendly we've required certain developments to have narrow shortcuts running straight through them."

 

"Neat. So are those shortcuts open 24/7?"

 

"Are you crazy? The shortcuts are closed 24/7. Allowing people to access the shortcuts would be annoying for residents & businesses and dangerous for everyone else."

 

"I'm confused."

 

"Did I tell you we're planning a bunch more? It's going to be great."


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#951 Barrrister

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 01:31 PM

Oh biy, another knock him down and knock them out strata fight. Maybe they can sell tickets if the blood starts to flow.



#952 G-Man

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 02:23 PM

I think expecting the walkways to be perfect urban experiences from day one is unfair. The key part is the access route design can happen and change over the next few decades. If we don't include them from the outset though then we never get that opportunity.

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#953 aastra

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 02:54 PM

How can they change? We've talked about this before. These developments aren't the sort of buildings that lend themselves to significant alterations. You think one day in the future those residential townhouses will be converted to commercial spaces or re-worked for some other use? Sure, it could happen. But is it likely? Even if you were somehow in the position to propose it, surely you'd be facing a bitter years-long battle against multiple parties, and probably against the CoV itself.

 

So I disagree. Whenever we advocate for a new purpose-built walkway we need to make the effort to get the design/character/purpose as clarified as possible right from the very start. What excuses could we possibly have for not learning lessons from past experiences? That crappy little passage beside First Island Financial is how old now? Almost 30 years? We should have enough examples now both good and bad to guide the program. There's no excuse to still be fumbling around in the dark as if every new walkway is the very first one.



#954 G-Man

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 06:26 AM

So the buildings along Bastion Square were built with pedestrian space in mind? Aastra, you of all people should be aware that buildings do change over time. Sometimes lots of times.

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#955 G-Man

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 06:27 AM

Also I use the First Island Financial route all the time. Lots of people do to get their coffee ☕

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#956 aastra

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 08:25 AM

 

So the buildings along Bastion Square were built with pedestrian space in mind?

 

My whole point was that we should NOT be comparing these inflexible new strata residential buildings to old buildings and spaces that were re-worked and converted and maybe even re-worked and converted again over the course of their long lifetimes. The two environments are completely different and the issues with strata residential buildings should be obvious. I mean, just consider the years-long saga that happened right across the street involving potential changes to the comparably trivial mosaic on the side of the Wave. If a significant re-envisioning of the walkway beside Yates on Yates could get done in less than 30 years I would honestly be amazed. Again, consider the crappy utilitarian walkway beside First Island Financial. That's a commercial building, so the issues are nothing compared to a condo complex. They've also had a few decades to mull it over. Has the walkway been re-envisioned and re-worked to become a smashing success? (Or is it still just the same serviceable shortcut that it was from day one?)

 

The stubborn refusal to learn from past experience and examples is very baffling to me. It's almost as if people are addicted to the drama of the botched endeavour. And anyone who dares to recall yesterday or last week is treated like a practitioner of black arts. If doing a certain something in a certain way has not worked out well and has created a ton of new problems and headaches then maybe just stop doing it? Methinks that's good advice generally.


Edited by aastra, 12 October 2021 - 09:36 AM.

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#957 Barrrister

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 10:11 AM

But banging your head feels so good when you stop or pass out.

 

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#958 Mike K.

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 10:19 AM

My whole point was that we should NOT be comparing these inflexible new strata residential buildings to old buildings and spaces that were re-worked and converted and maybe even re-worked and converted again over the course of their long lifetimes. The two environments are completely different and the issues with strata residential buildings should be obvious. I mean, just consider the years-long saga that happened right across the street involving potential changes to the comparably trivial mosaic on the side of the Wave. If a significant re-envisioning of the walkway beside Yates on Yates could get done in less than 30 years I would honestly be amazed. Again, consider the crappy utilitarian walkway beside First Island Financial. That's a commercial building, so the issues are nothing compared to a condo complex. They've also had a few decades to mull it over. Has the walkway been re-envisioned and re-worked to become a smashing success? (Or is it still just the same serviceable shortcut™ that it was from day one?)

The stubborn refusal to learn from past experience and examples is very baffling to me. It's almost as if people are addicted to the drama of the botched endeavour. And anyone who dares to recall yesterday or last week is treated like a practitioner of black arts. If doing a certain something in a certain way has not worked out well and has created a ton of new problems and headaches then maybe just stop doing it? Methinks that's good advice generally.


Well actually, aastra, First Island has “two” paths to choose from. Geez.

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#959 aastra

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:24 AM

There are always two paths.


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#960 aastra

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:27 AM

I'm just saying it seems like an odd strategy to create something that you know will be inadequate and/or problematic in its original incarnation, but that you hope (assume) will somehow get optimized into something much better at some future date. Why not address the predictable issues with the first go-round?



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