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[Colwood] Royal Roads University | Construction and campus infrastructure


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#1 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 11:38 AM

http://www.goldstrea.../408850935.html

 

The Department of National Defence (DND) has owned the land occupied by Royal Roads University since acquiring it from the Dunsmuir family during the Second World War, but according to Jessica Lamirande, senior communications officer with the DND, the department no longer "has an operational need for the Royal Roads property" and is "considering various options for disposal."

 

The university or the property's heritage buildings won't be affected, Lamirande added.

 

Colwood Mayor Carol Hamilton disclosed this information at a December council meeting.

 

Esquimalt Nation and Songhees First Nation have expressed interest in the land and negotiations are ongoing. Both bands have identified the property as a core part of their claimed traditional territory. It's unclear how long the negotiations will take and what effect a transfer of ownership might have on the abundant trails and green space on the property.

 

 

screenshot-www.google.ca 2017-01-03 11-42-40.png

 

For comparison, same scale.

 

screenshot-www.google.ca 2017-01-03 11-46-48.png

 

 

 


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#2 RFS

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:11 PM

i would love to see some development happen here. same goes for the DND land in esquimalt around mcloughlin and work point. beautiful real estate with amazing views just wasted. i wouldnt mind if the DND were using it for anything important but they aren't.

#3 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:14 PM

i would love to see some development happen here. same goes for the DND land in esquimalt around mcloughlin and work point. beautiful real estate with amazing views just wasted. i wouldnt mind if the DND were using it for anything important but they aren't.

 

If it goes into the hands of Songhees/Esquimalt, is there much hope for that?  They have some nice waterfront in View Royal that seems under-utilized.  However, they do have an excellent negotiator on staff.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#4 dasmo

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 01:07 PM

Green wild space is not wasted. It's what makes this place...
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#5 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 01:11 PM

Green wild space is not wasted. It's what makes this place...

 

Are we short of that?

 

screenshot-www.google.ca 2017-01-03 13-10-28.png


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#6 dasmo

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 02:24 PM

Just saying. It's a great park that is easy to access. I could see some development but nuking it would be a real loss. Nature and people need wild space. I've lived in a place that has virtually none. It sucks...

#7 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 02:43 PM

Just saying. It's a great park that is easy to access. I could see some development but nuking it would be a real loss. Nature and people need wild space. I've lived in a place that has virtually none. It sucks...

 

I guess what I mean is that all that green west of Colwood/Langford can be park, is park, but can't be housing (urban containment, lack of sewers/water etc. etc.).  Whereas the Royals Roads land could be housing.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#8 spanky123

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 04:29 PM

If I were the Royal Roads execs I would be worried. Their 99 year lease with DND would, in my opinion, be unenforceable if the land was transferred to the FN. 



#9 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 07:27 AM

If I were the Royal Roads execs I would be worried. Their 99 year lease with DND would, in my opinion, be unenforceable if the land was transferred to the FN. 

 

I think it's reasonable to expect the university keeps its own land or the lease transfers, I'm sure it's all in the negotiations.  Maybe the university does not even need that space.  All the friends I have had that attended there do 95%* of their work online.

 

Royal Roads area users fear loss of forested land

 

 

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#10 spanky123

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 08:13 AM

What seems to be the process is that land is transferred to FN and then the Government leases back use off the land so that the FN have income. I can see RR courses being changed to support FN education and cultural sensitivity training for Government staff, both of which were recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation report.



#11 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 08:43 AM

...cultural sensitivity training for Government staff, both of which were recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation report.

 

Apart from cultural history going back to the 1800's and pre-contact, what is today's native culture?  I don't think they have much of one.  Or certainly not one that they'd like to celebrate.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#12 http

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:16 AM

Supposing your opinion were true, which it isn't, you might want to spend a minute thinking about how hard it might be to maintain a culture when, among other things, the children are taken away and punished for speaking the language. Think about how easy or hard it might be for a culture to recover from that, if at all, and how many generations it might take. And then, I hope, you'll erase edit your post.

 

Your blithe dismissal is awful, beyond disrespectful, and you should realize that real people are going to find it painful. Don't say nobody told you, now.


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#13 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:39 AM

Oh yes, teaching Canadians to speak in English must have set them back decades.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#14 Rob Randall

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:48 AM

Oh yes, teaching Canadians to speak in English must have set them back decades.

 

Now you're just being a jerk. You know what really happened over those decades was profoundly worse. 

 

If this property reverts to First Nations it is pointless to do so without allowing them the opportunity to gain significant income through some sort of redevelopment.


Edited by Rob Randall, 04 January 2017 - 11:49 AM.

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#15 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:50 AM

If this property reverts to First Nations it is pointless to do so without allowing them the opportunity to gain significant income through some sort of redevelopment.

 

I agree.  But let them build condos or houses, or offices, or business parks.  Let's not just have government lease is back as park.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#16 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:52 AM

Now you're just being a jerk. You know what really happened over those decades was profoundly worse. 

 

Only 30% of kids went through residential schools.  I'm not sure that would extinguish their culture, even if it did have an effect on their language.  http only touched on language.

 

Look, I'm the guy that thinks we have been absolutely horrible the way we have handled - and continue to handle - the native file.  It's a national disgrace.

 

But that does not automatically mean that we should pretend that most natives have some kind of wonderful and sought-after culture.  They simply do not.  That's fact, that's reality.  Nobody goes and takes a vacation at a native reserve (except maybe in Osoyoos where Western capitalism and culture has taken root on-reserve), and nobody goes to watch native cultural ceremonies, except when the government is paying the ticket.  They have some wonderful art, very much sought-after and cherished, and valuable, but only a tiny proportion of their population produces it.  They have less than 10% of the artisans, per capita, than the rest of the Canadian population has.


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#17 RFS

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 12:48 PM

the indian act is far more of a handicap to natives than residential schools were. corrupt, unaccountable millionaire cheifs, no individual property ownership, no oppourtunity to profit off their land or build equity.
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#18 LJ

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 07:08 PM

Supposing your opinion were true, which it isn't,

 

So opinions can be true or false, interesting. I guess they are false if they don't agree with your opinion, is that how that works?


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#19 spanky123

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:00 AM

I agree.  But let them build condos or houses, or offices, or business parks.  Let's not just have government lease is back as park.

 

What I could see happening here is that the bands take over RR and then the Government provides a constant supply of 'students' for sensitivity and awareness training. If you are working in Ottawa then a week or two in Victoria in Jan/Feb would be a pretty good R&R break.

 

I am not suggesting that every band is the same but the graveyards are littered with the bones of developers who have partnered with FN bands across the country and found that their leases and contracts are not enforceable. My bet is that is why you see so very little private development and partnerships with FN.



#20 jonny

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:10 AM

So why is there so little economic activity on most FN land? Some have tons (Osoyoos, Tsawwassen, Fort Mac), but most, you can tell you are on a reservation just by driving past the houses and seeing how much junk and garbage is piled all over the place.

 

Is it a cultural thing? Are you a sell out if you play the white man’s game and open a business?

 

Another shocking thing is how few FN people you see in the professional world. In my career, I bet I have come across fewer than 15 or 20.


Edited by jonny, 05 January 2017 - 09:11 AM.


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