830 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

If the City had put the property on the open market then arguably they would have received a lot more money. 

 

Perhaps, but at the time of the disposition program only six bids emerged. I'm fairly confident the Telus proposal was the most exciting for the City, having seen some of the other bids.

[Mike K.]

I'd swear I saw the Telus float plane leaving the inner harbour an hour ago.

 

It's known to visit town 

[Rob Randall]

Perhaps, but at the time of the disposition program only six bids emerged. I'm fairly confident the Telus proposal was the most exciting for the City, having seen some of the other bids.

 

The DRA's contention seems to be that while Telus won the competition, the design has since changed so dramatically it no longer is the same vison. I wonder if it's fair to the other competitors. 

[Mike K.]

I would be inclined to think that the Aryze version is going to be far more architecturally forward than a Jawl proposal.

 

I wish we could have seen the proposals, or could see them. There's no reason for secrecy now that the decision has been made.

[spanky123]

Perhaps, but at the time of the disposition program only six bids emerged. I'm fairly confident the Telus proposal was the most exciting for the City, having seen some of the other bids.

That is because only a few firms were asked to bid. Did you know the lot was available for sale and how to make an offer? Did you know whatever price you bid the City would offset by $2M to allow for "remediation"?

Edited by spanky123, 10 March 2021 - 07:24 AM.

[spanky123]

The DRA's contention seems to be that while Telus won the competition, the design has since changed so dramatically it no longer is the same vison. I wonder if it's fair to the other competitors. 

 

That is generally how it works. 

[Mike K.]

That is because only a few firms were asked to bid. Did you know the lot was available for sale and how to make an offer? Did you know whatever price you bid the City would offset by $2M to allow for "remediation"?

 

The City had issued an RFEI seeking bids for the land. Only six bids emerged.

[spanky123]

The City had issued an RFEI seeking bids for the land. Only six bids emerged.

 

Sure but who goes looking at the CoV website for an RFEI? Would only be firms told of the process. REITs and offshore private equity would have been very interested I would assume and would have paid top dollar.

[Mike K.]

Everybody in the industry knew about this, including Telus. It wasn't a secret by any means. I also don't think this is a particularly exciting piece of land. In the time that the RFEI came and went, the winner was selected, etc, developers turned over a few dozens land deals in the city centre without the rigamarole of a bidding process.

[Hotel Mike]

As I went by, I noticed there is a big sign on the south part of the property, explaining Telus' "vision" for the site.

[spanky123]

Everybody in the industry knew about this, including Telus. It wasn't a secret by any means. I also don't think this is a particularly exciting piece of land. In the time that the RFEI came and went, the winner was selected, etc, developers turned over a few dozens land deals in the city centre without the rigamarole of a bidding process.

 

Doesn't matter to me what developers do with their own land. I am only concerned with a level of Government selling a public asset and maximizing the value received.

 

If my math is correct, the land sold for $39 per buildable sq ft. ($8.1M less the $2M 'remediation' benefit).

Edited by spanky123, 10 March 2021 - 11:51 AM.

[Mike K.]

Sounds about right.

 

Had the City held on to it for another five years, it might have sold then (future tense) for $15 million. Such is life, I guess.

[spanky123]

Sounds about right.

 

Had the City held on to it for another five years, it might have sold then (future tense) for $15 million. Such is life, I guess.

 

Hmm. I seem to recall that when the City was purchasing the firehall airspace parcel they told us $90 a sq ft was a great deal!

[PPPdev]

your valuation is wrong, there is PSF buildable lift above OCP density that is above the $8.1m

 

Also, the City didn't want residential here, they wanted jobs and innovation.

 

Wanting this to be sold for residential is such a short term thinking. An equivalent residential building would generate $500,000 a year in Ptax whereas the proposed building will do $1.7m per year. Multiply that by 50 years and the potential $5m bump on initial sale is chump change.

Edited by PPPdev, 10 March 2021 - 01:48 PM.

[Jacques Cadé]

Being discussed now. Mayor is opposing staff recommendation to tweak the proposal and bring it back to COTW later, and is instead introducing a motion to have it go to public hearing ASAP. Alto agrees ... and delivers a speech about turning Victoria from a small town into a big city.

Charlayne Thornton-Joe introduced a motion to have the Heritage Advisory Panel review the effects on the surrounding area (Empress, Crystal Garden, Church of Our Lord), referencing concerns by Marin Segger, but that motion failed 4-5.

Edited by Jacques Cadé, 11 March 2021 - 12:15 PM.

[Rob Randall]

I like Charlayne and Martin but heritage impact has little to do with this particular site. I'm glad the motion failed. 

[Jacques Cadé]

Majority voted against the recommended referral back to staff, and instead agreed with the mayor and voted 5-4 to send the project directly to public hearing. Helps, Alto, Andrew, Loveday and Potts in favour; Dubow, Isitt, Thornton-Joe and Young opposed.

[spanky123]

Majority voted against the recommended referral back to staff, and instead agreed with the mayor and voted 5-4 to send the project directly to public hearing. Helps, Alto, Andrew, Loveday and Potts in favour; Dubow, Isitt, Thornton-Joe and Young opposed.

 

The Mayor has too much invested in this project to let public discourse get in the way of approval. I am surprised that she even bothered to get input from staff or the community in the first place. Seems like a waste of time and money.

[Kapten Kapsell]

Majority voted against the recommended referral back to staff, and instead agreed with the mayor and voted 5-4 to send the project directly to public hearing. Helps, Alto, Andrew, Loveday and Potts in favour; Dubow, Isitt, Thornton-Joe and Young opposed.

Thanks for the update Jaques.  The fact that Dubow, Isitt, Thorton-Joe, and Young voted the same way (while Stephen Andrew aligned himself with Loveday and Potts) just shows that individual council votes don't always follow (perceived) 'left-right' expectations...

[Jacques Cadé]

An unusual vote in unusual times, perhaps. Many of those who voted in favour said they wanted to show confidence in downtown and didn't want further delay. Those who voted against liked the project generally but thought it needed further refinement.