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Poverty Reduction


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#21 spanky123

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 01:54 PM

As respectful, reasonable citizens, let's throw some research into this!

 

The Basic Income Canada Network has a great list of introductory resources and a list of in-depth research. Because they are pro-basic income, the list is obviously biased in favour of basic income. Feel free to throw some counter-arguments into the mix.

The first flaw is reliance on the Manitoba Mincome experiment. There was never a final report conducted after the 'experiment'. Any data analysis was completed after the fact by people unaffiliated with the project. As a result, you can pretty much find any opinion you want on the net.

 

I may have missed it, but I don't see any analysis on how we pay for all of this. 


Edited by spanky123, 31 October 2017 - 01:55 PM.


#22 FirstTimeHomeCrier

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 02:10 PM

The first flaw is reliance on the Manitoba Mincome experiment. There was never a final report conducted after the 'experiment'. Any data analysis was completed after the fact by people unaffiliated with the project. As a result, you can pretty much find any opinion you want on the net.

 

I may have missed it, but I don't see any analysis on how we pay for all of this. 

 

Here's one, and another one, and another one, and another one. And here's a few different books that cover funding.



#23 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 02:13 PM

I really have mixed feelings on this and think that there may be some significant unintended consequences, particularly for those who struggle with addictions and managing whatever money they have.  I also think that the Mincome experiment of Dauphin is likely out of date and out of context at this time.

 

My gut is that it will make marginal and low paid work more attractive while making full-time work less attractive.  Likely to be most beneficial to those with young children, students, and the difficult to employ.  I'd also be inclined to think that it may exacerbate some of the affordability issues and could be inflationary, particularly with respect to food and housing.  



#24 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 02:24 PM

I've said it here before... when and if a person can show some responsibility for paying their own bills, let's give them that freedom, indeed let's encourage it.  But even right now, we have a system that takes the "rent" portion off their welfare cheque, as many can not be trusted to turn it in.

 

And I've argued here in the past that many addicts would be better off if we paid them weekly (easy now in the era of micropayments, not so easy back in the Dauhphin experiment days) so we do not see the boom or bust "welfare day"/weeks of of wait cycle of drug abuse.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 31 October 2017 - 02:34 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#25 spanky123

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 02:27 PM

Here's one, and another one, and another one, and another one. And here's a few different books that cover funding.

 

So the basic concept is that to cover the $30B to $90B a year cost all we need to do is get rid of OAS and the basic income tax credit. I have no doubt that people have little to no income would benefit from a simplified, no questions asked, system. What about the middle class though? By forfeiting OAS and the basic income tax credit they would lose out on many thousands of dollars a year in income even though they are by no means rich. 


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#26 rjag

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 04:06 PM

https://www.gla.ac.u...a_166963_en.pdf

 

http://www.independe...o-a7505561.html

 

https://www.theguard...social-security

 

I'm sure no-one will begrudge a single parent trying to get by or someone that is unable to work due to a disability etc...its the rest that will use it simply to finance their party lifestyle on the backs of working folks.....



#27 tjv

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 05:55 PM

I have difficulty with this in so many ways.  For a poorer person there are so many that work under the table for cash and yet collect their welfare cheques usually complaining that its hard to live off welfare.  Welfare was never intended to live off of but to provide somewhat of a social safety net to help them get by when they fell on hard times, for example, if their unemployment insurance ran out and the economy was in a deep recession

 

Personally there need to be bigger fraud protection for people caught double dipping.  Say a 1-800 number where you can provide information that leads to conviction and as a tipster you get a reward

 

We need to stop enabling and provide better incentives to get off the system and back to work.  If you are able bodied and on welfare, are there reports you have to hand in showing you are looking for work, business names, names of people spoken with date time and phone number?  Maybe you hand in this report when you get a cheque and some questions are asked like why you weren't enrolled in free work classes (yes, those would be provided too) or only applied for 5 jobs in the last month.  Oh you have to wait in line for 8 hours to get your cheque?  Well maybe its easier to get a job than to deal with all the paperwork and responsibilities to get a government cheque



#28 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:13 PM

If you are employable and on welfare, you do have to turn in a report monthly.  It's not even really a report, it's just your last month cheque stub, with some tick-off boxes, certainly no report of what employers you reached out to.  And you can just drop it off at a counter or maybe even an after-hours box, you do not need to see anyone.

 

And I agree tjv.  If you are a guy sitting playing your X-box in Thunder Bay (rent from $600) and the government is giving you $1500/mo no questions asked, are you gonna go work a legit roofing job with your buddy for $18/hr. when half gets clawed back and you end up with $9?  No.  But might you go help for $16/hr cash under table.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 31 October 2017 - 06:14 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#29 spanky123

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:20 PM

^ When the Manitoba experiment was run in the 70's there was no internet, no mobile phones, no computers and the average house had something like 4-5 TV channels. Not much to do sitting around at home.

 

These days you can turn online games, internet surfing or TV watching into a full time 'job' without any effort at all.



#30 LJ

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:31 PM

I go back to the interview with the woman in Seattle who was interviewed on TV when the minimum wage was increased.

 

"Oh, yeah I think the raise is great, but I had to cut back on my hours or I would loose my rent supplement."

 

I am not in favour of paying one thin dime to these people, they have the ability to support themselves but refuse to.


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Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#31 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 11:31 AM

Backpack Buddies, launched Friday in Victoria, exists to fill the weekend hunger gap. While students may take advantage of school-based meal programs during the week, few supports exist on weekends, leaving children without food for up to two days. Backpack Buddies discreetly provides backpacks full of weekend meals every Friday to students in need.

 

The Vancouver-based organization is launching in five Victoria schools this semester and plans to provide 1,000 backpacks each month.

 

“Hunger doesn’t take the weekend off and children shouldn’t suffer,” says Backpack Buddies Co-Founder and President Joanne Griffiths. “We’re expanding into Victoria for the first time because we don’t want vulnerable kids here to be hungry and fearful every Friday.”

 

 

 

https://www.vicnews....end-hunger-gap/

 

parents that take the weekend off from feeding their children should have their children taken away and put in better homes.

 

why are the backpacks provided "discreetly"?  to prevent others from knowing their parents are horrible people and even worse parents?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 September 2019 - 11:33 AM.

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#32 rmpeers

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 12:52 PM

I'm not sure I understand... these kids are getting free lunches at school but then the article suggests they are in danger of going 2 days without food on the weekend??

#33 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 01:01 PM

I'm not sure I understand... these kids are getting free lunches at school but then the article suggests they are in danger of going 2 days without food on the weekend??

 

yes that's it.  the parents have absolved themselves of feeding their own kids weekdays because the school (read: taxpayers) does.  now this program wants to let parents off the hook from feeding their kids on weekends.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 September 2019 - 01:02 PM.

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#34 Midnightly

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 10:56 PM

I'm not sure I understand... these kids are getting free lunches at school but then the article suggests they are in danger of going 2 days without food on the weekend??

 

 

there are also many schools that offer a breakfast program too (some just a simple toast club where others are more complex offering a more substantial well balanced breakfast..) and allowing children to take home left overs from lunch program that day (often put on a cart for those to help themselves)  so some kids get 2 meals a day fed to them from the school (most breakfast programs are funded through donations)


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