1571 replies to this topic

[aastra]

 

It just seems like a generic Burquitlam development. Just everything about it underwhelms me.

 

It might sound funny but I can tolerate a certain amount of that. For a project of this nature and this scale I think we should probably expect it to some degree. But I don't understand why the entire thing needs to follow that model. I've criticized the bland new supertall towers at Brentwood Mall, but there are other aspects of that redevelopment that are pretty cool and definitely not standard-issue.

 

 

Pic from vanman at skyscraperpage.com/forum

Edited by aastra, 23 December 2020 - 01:10 PM.

[Nparker]

 

I still don't understand why it wouldn't be viable to add some unique personality to one of the podiums (or part of one of the podiums) and at least one of the towers...

Who says that can't happen in the approval process? I doubt we've seen the final designs for this proposal.

[Rob Randall]

Beyond the replacement of a terribly dated, suburban-style strip mall, and vastly underutilized urban car lots.

 

If you're trying to say a C+ effort is acceptable because the current use is even more dismal you won't win me over.

[Nparker]

If you're trying to say a C+ effort is acceptable because the current use is even more dismal you won't win me over.

Pretty sure I never said that. You're the one who suggested this was bringing no improvement to the neighbourhood.

I am puzzled why people seem convinced we are seeing the final, carved-in-stone, unalterable designs for this project.

[Jackerbie]

Who says that can't happen in the approval process? I doubt we've seen the final designs for this proposal.

 

I am puzzled why people seem convinced we are seeing the final, carved-in-stone, unalterable designs for this project.

 

Exactly this. We're looking at a large site, it'll probably be at least a three phase development, and I wouldn't be surprised if each phase will have it's own development permit. 

[Jackerbie]

The first phase, 1045 Yates Street, went to ADP today. Drawings and staff report are here: https://www.victoria... ADP Report.pdf

 

View from Yates Street

[aastra]

So... I guess we've dropped the idea that the first images were just concept images and not particularly relevant to the final product?

 

Also, any critics who said these projects look like typical stuff from the suburbs of Greater Vancouver or Toronto are now officially eating crow:

 

 

Design Rationale:
Inspired by Victoria's natural surroundings and low-key urbanism, the towers' lozenge shape appears simple in form, but with a varied balcony evoking a sense of movement and rhythm, like waves or eddies in the Harbour.

 

There it is in black and white. How could anyone argue with that?

[Jackerbie]

So... I guess we've dropped the idea that the first images were just concept images and not particularly relevant to the final product?

 

From the staff report:

The Rezoning Application includes only the general massing and siting of potential future buildings around the central public plaza. However, given the deviations from the OCP, a set of design guidelines have been prepared to guide the Development Permit (DP) applications for each subsequent phase.

 

 

The current DP application is for 1045 Yates only. And for comparison, the first iteration of this phase:

Edited by Jackerbie, 14 January 2021 - 09:35 AM.

[aastra]

Yes, I know. That's for the car property. Are you saying the images are still not reflective of the final product? Then why contrive so much nonsense about the design rationale?

[Jackerbie]

Yes, I know. That's for the car property. Are you saying the images are still not reflective of the final product? Then why contrive so much nonsense about the design rationale?

 

Staff brought forward two applications with separate sets of documents: the DP for 1045 Yates Street, and the urban design manual for the entire project.

 

The DP plans are DP plans, same as any other DP application.

 

The urban design manual is illustrative and meant to guide the design of subsequent phases (think along the lines of what has been done for Dockside Green or Roundhouse). These guidelines will be added to the OCP, meaning they could have impacts beyond just this project. The guidelines could also change based on input from ADP and Council.

[aastra]

Maybe my old eyes aren't working so well these days, but I'm seeing the same basic design in those images except the overall effect is trending in the wrong direction (from less generic to more generic).

 

Anyway, my main point here is this: simple-minded critics would never really appreciate "eddies in the harbour" or any such poetic nuances of architectural design. When those critics see sections of spandrel three panels wide running down the height of the towers, they won't grasp the allusion to the surf on the rugged Pacific coast of Vancouver Island. When those critics see dark grey aluminum panels along the top level of the podium, they won't perceive the reference to rainy British Columbia's overcast skies.

 

For the record, even though I'm being a stinker I'm actually willing to give this project a lot of leeway. And generic or not, to my old eyes it still looks much better than -- for example -- Chard's proposal across the street. But for the London Drugs block I think we should all have higher expectations.

[Mike K.]

I'm a fan of iteration #2. #1 was relatively ho-hum but they've done a decent job here if you're a fan of Legato, which I believe the podium level pallete borrows from. Are the separated balconies the right answer to Yates Street's busy frontage? I don't know, but it's a different look.

 

Legato: https://victoria.cit.../condos/legato/

[Brantastic]

I think this is slightly better, particularly the podium massing as it looks like less of a big, chunky block. It seems like they've made a bit of an effort to break up the Yates Street facade a bit, but why not go further by at least using different materials or a different color on each of the two halves. I also feel like this blocky design would work better on just about any other block in Harris Green but this one. It'll look a bit bizarre next to the Regents Park Towers. 

[Rob Randall]

The design is just too ho-hum and subtle for what should be a spectacular block buster. 

 

For better or for worse the present Harris Green strip mall is the heart of Harris Green, its replacement should not look just like more of the same style of similar new buildings up the street.

[victorian]

For better or for worse the present Harris Green strip mall is the heart of Harris Green, its replacement should not look just like more of the same style of similar new buildings up the street.

 

[AllseeingEye]

The design is just too ho-hum and subtle for what should be a spectacular block buster. 

 

For better or for worse the present Harris Green strip mall is the heart of Harris Green, its replacement should not look just like more of the same style of similar new buildings up the street.

 

The problem is Victoria doesn't do spectacular: its doesn't do (very well) new or modern or taller or - especially - spectacular. A "....nice conservative, unspeakably dull - but inoffensive! - 4 storey box please and thanks" <- that has been the way of things here for 50 years, sadly. 

Edited by AllseeingEye, 15 January 2021 - 08:46 AM.

[Mike K.]

That’s an unfair statement. I can think of dozens of buildings that have risen over the last two decades that would make most cities blush.

Why beat this city down so much?

[Rob Randall]

Because I love this city and have seen it do better.

[Mike K.]

I’m referring to the comment above about Victoria only building bland four-storey boxes. It’s not a serious reflection on the efforts so many developers and architects have made for decades.

We punch well, well above our weight compared to much of this country and continent.

[AllseeingEye]

I’m referring to the comment above about Victoria only building bland four-storey boxes. It’s not a serious reflection on the efforts so many developers and architects have made for decades.

We punch well, well above our weight compared to much of this country and continent.

 

It may have been a bit harsh but the point is you can find - with no effort at all - hundreds of the same bland boring cookie cutter boxes everywhere from Sidney to Saanich to Cook St mostly constructed from the 50's through the 80's.

 

"Yes" in recent years by Victoria standards there has been a renaissance, of sorts - structures which are more modern, taller etc - but compared globally not so much. Saying we compare well to Saskatoon or Omaha isn't saying very much IMO. Have a gander at some truly spectacular urban architecture in Europe, specifically Spain to cite one example - Valencia and Barcelona to be specific. That is what I refer to when I say "vision". Older cities with a TON of history compared to Victoria but which aren't afraid to design and build truly visionary even radical structures...

 

To Rob's point how are the proposed towers for Harris Green really any different from any one of a dozen others built over the last decade, literally right down the street, other than the fact they are taller? We can and should do better.