2544 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

...the only places happy with current lot seem to be North Park (excepting N. Parker) and Fernwood.

At least one of my neighbours loathes our current mayor and council, so I am not entirely alone.

[tanker]

I do notice that homeless camps never seem to appear in those two neighborhoods.

[Stephen Andrew]

Burnside-Gorge has never been the richest source of votes compared to south Victoria. But there is anger there right now. Andrew can capitalize on it but he has to offer more than just I feel your pain.

Agreed. I live the Burnside Gorge experience. That alone won’t endear voters - I recognize that.

I also agree with you there’s a “no one votes north of Bay Street” mentality. We need to change that.

That is why I oppose exterior Victoria voting places. If council “really” wanted to expand the turnout, surely the most appropriate way to do that is to go into the areas that have low turnout, find out why and come up with a plan to increase participation.

I suspect some of the suppression is due to the belief these voters feel disenfranchised. We need to change that - and to be blunt we - you dear reader where ever you are - can help to do that.

I would even like to see Vibrant Victoria start a campaign merely increase the vote - non partisan of course.

The people on this forum are engaged. We know what it means to care. We need to motivate others to do the same.

Sure we can complain and be sarcastic - we feel better for a moment - but wouldn’t it be a great feeling if we could witness real change?

I hope that happens. Idealistic? No. I have faith we can restore some reason and inclusion to our city.

Edited by Stephen Andrew, 24 July 2020 - 09:49 AM.

[grantpalin]

I do notice that homeless camps never seem to appear in those two neighborhoods.

There are some number of campers in Central Park. Or at least there were around a dozen when I walked around there on Monday.

[Nparker]

...I suspect some of the suppression is due to the belief these voters feel disenfranchised. We need to change that - and to be blunt we - you dear reader where ever you are - can help to do that.

As a CoV voter I have never felt as disenfranchised as I have since the October 2018 civic election. With the exception of one council member, I don't feel that any elected representative shares my concerns or values. I often wonder if I will be able to muster up enough enthusiasm to vote in the next Victoria campaign.

[Mike K.]

The narrative that works in the by-election is “the Burnside-Gorge guy wants to fix this city, he knows what the Fairfield and James Bay people are facing as he’s lived it for years.”

Together Victoria has helped foster the most divisive, destructive and politically disenfranchising period in the CoV’s history. One of their elected slate members was not and is not a resident of the City of Victoria, while the business community still doesn’t have a voice at the table.

A point of focus for municipal elections should be to do away with the restriction on business owners voting. I’m not talking about land owners, as they can choose to cast a vote within the municipality in which they own the property (but only once, and only one of the owners if there are multiple individuals), but those whose name appears on a business license. If you operate a business out of the CoV, you get a vote. Why doesn’t it work that way?

[Victoria Watcher]

if businesses were so organized they’d use the DVba as their voice. Or the chamber. But they don’t. businesses are all in fear of reprisal.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 July 2020 - 10:29 AM.

[Nparker]

...Together Victoria has helped foster the most divisive, destructive and politically disenfranchising period in the CoV’s history...

Truer words were never spoken or in this case, written.

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

A point of focus for municipal elections should be to do away with the restriction on business owners voting. I’m not talking about land owners, as they can choose to cast a vote within the municipality in which they own the property (but only once, and only one of the owners if there are multiple individuals), but those whose name appears on a business license. If you operate a business out of the CoV, you get a vote. Why doesn’t it work that way?

No, just no.

 

What's next, arguing that business owners should get a vote in the riding they operate a business in as well as their home riding in Provincial/Federal elections?

[Mike K.]

Four of your City of Victoria councillors can’t even cast a vote for themselves as they don’t live in your municipality. Two vote in Saanich, two will vote in Esquimalt.

Is that fair? How is that fair, or logical?

Meanwhile the bakery down the street from your home now in its 14th year of business has invested $100,000 into tenant improvements, has paid $15,000 per year in municipal property taxes, and is impacted directly, every day, by the vote of someone who moved into the City of Victoria as a renter in January of 2018, cast a vote in the City of Victoria in November of 2018, but moved to Esquimalt in March of 2019. Is that fair, or logical, in light of the aforementioned business owner having zero say come election time?

[Mike K.]

if businesses were so organized they’d use the DVba as their voice. Or the chamber. But they don’t. businesses are all in fear of reprisal.

They wouldn’t have to be if they had a vote.

[Rob Randall]

Could the guy that owns Starbucks vote in every city in the world?

[Ismo07]

They wouldn’t have to be if they had a vote.

 

Very hard to allow for that.  Some businesses might have 5 owners, 10 owners?  Does the Bay get one vote? 7-11?  Are you just talking about mom and pop shops?  Would mom and pop both get a vote or is it one vote for each business?  So the landlord would get a vote and 5 business tenants?  It seems to me that businesses get some pretty major sway in other ways than say I would as a voter.   I'd say at the end of the day they have more persuasion as a single small business than I would as a resident who votes.

[Mike K.]

No, but he could run for council.

[Mike K.]

Very hard to allow for that. Some businesses might have 5 owners, 10 owners? Does the Bay get one vote? 7-11? Are you just talking about mom and pop shops? Would mom and pop both get a vote or is it one vote for each business? So the landlord would get a vote and 5 business tenants? It seems to me that businesses get some pretty major sway in other ways than say I would as a voter. I'd say at the end of the day they have more persuasion as a single small business than I would as a resident who votes.

That’s already accounted for in the bylaws governing commercial property owners. One registered owner per building votes.

Then one vote is cast per business license if there are additional licenses registered within the building, but only if registered by different people (can’t vote twice if you own a building and have a business license for the premises).

[Mike K.]

Also, a strata titled commercial property can contain 20 or 50-units of commercial spaces, like some office and professional buildings do. The owners of those units get a vote (if they want it, but they forfeit the vote in their home municipality), but someone leasing a downtown restaurant and paying $35,000 in property taxes per year, gets no vote, but a Central Saanich resident and voter can run for mayor.

That’s what I call a broken system.

[Greg]

Amalgamation remains the simpler answer. Many of those business owners already live within the CRD.

[Ismo07]

Also, a strata titled commercial property can contain 20 or 50-units of commercial spaces, like some office and professional buildings do. The owners of those units get a vote (if they want it, but they forfeit the vote in their home municipality), but someone leasing a downtown restaurant and paying $35,000 in property taxes per year, gets no vote, but a Central Saanich resident and voter can run for mayor.

That’s what I call a broken system.

 

I'm still not sure what is broken about it.  Typically when someone runs they have some tie to the City (business owner or something) if he/she doesn't very unlikely to get voted in.  If the residents and landowners want to vote for someone from Kelowna they why not?  Like I said business owners already have more pull than a resident maybe it's good they don't have more.  It might change the vote to a primarily business friendly council.  I know you and many would like a change but that might be drastic.  Not saying worse or better but the landscape would be quite different in many municipalities in BC.  Just think that in Victoria alone it's around 14,000.  Now that will include home based and things like taxi cabs etc.  What about buskers, food trucks, vendors at fairs or markets?  Let's say that 10,000 of those don't live in Victoria and the only thing they care about is benefits to their businesses.  That's a big swing.

[Mike K.]

What’s Dubow’s tie to the City of Victoria?

And Loveday’s? He grew up in Esquimalt, moved out east, came back, ran for council, and got in.

Helps is from Ontario and shortly after moving here ran for council and got in. How about Alto? She has a business in Saanich and lives there. Is her connection simply because she sees downtown as the region’s downtown?

T-J might have some land or property holdings in the CoV but I don’t know if that’s the case.

Anyways, the issue is, is that because the municipal border of Victoria is so small, only 20% of the region’s population resides within “Victoria,” while Victoria is responsible for the majority of employment for the remaining 80%. So if anything, those employers restricted from having a direct political say in the affairs of the municipality in which they pay property taxes is a democratic failure.

[Ismo07]

Anyways, the issue is, is that because the municipal border of Victoria is so small, only 20% of the region’s population resides within “Victoria,” while Victoria is responsible for the majority of employment for the remaining 80%. So if anything, those employers restricted from having a direct political say in the affairs of the municipality in which they pay property taxes is a democratic failure.

 

But they do have political sway, more than I do.  Do they really need more?  They pay lease rates, which include property taxes, but they do not pay them directly.  I'm just saying that residents might not want a full business pro council.  But maybe that's where the ward system comes in.  I'm not against it, I've often thought they should.  It just takes a little more thought.

Edited by Ismo07, 24 July 2020 - 11:53 AM.