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CRD Housing and Transportation Cost Estimate Study - 2020


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#1 marks_28

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 04:56 PM

Very interesting thread on the cost of housing and transportation in the CRD.

One thing that stuck out to me was that in three communities in the CRD, residents spend more on transportation than they do on housing costs.

Also, Saanich households have twice as many cars per household than Langford residents. Goes to show how much Saanich was designed with the car in mind.

https://twitter.com/...3609719810?s=21

#2 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:02 PM

oh boy. you think Saanich is car centric?

Saanich has some large areas with no commercial but it’s hardly a sprawl wasteland.

not sure people without cars are flicking to Langford due to easy walking.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 July 2020 - 05:02 PM.


#3 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:05 PM

The findings:

 

- the cost of vehicle ownership is significant regardless of how much it is used;
- areas where there are older apartments and condominiums with longer tenant tenure have lower housing costs;
- transportation costs tend to be lower in areas where more transportation options are available; and,
- some developing areas in the outer areas of the region show more housing affordability due to land values and availability.

 

As the kids say, well obvs.


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#4 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:07 PM

Also, Saanich households have twice as many cars per household than Langford residents. Goes to show how much Saanich was designed with the car in mind.

https://twitter.com/...3609719810?s=21

 

I would say that's more a reflection of wealth than it is car-centric neighbourhoods. The wealthy don't ride the bus, as a general rule, and their children are unlikely to catch the bus to school, or ride a bike, or walk. They're likely to drive.


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#5 marks_28

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:08 PM

Just figured you would need a car more in Langford than Saanich. Saanich is getting better, but growing up in Gordon Head, it was pretty hard to get to anywhere without a car. Bus service was mediocre at best, and not much of an active transportation network then.
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#6 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:21 PM

I'm referencing the chart now, and I see the average vehicles per household in Saanich as 1.7, and it's 1.8 in Langford, while average persons per dwelling is 2.4 in Saanich and 2.5 in Langford.

 

Langford residents will spend $13,444 annually in transpo costs per household and Saanich residents $12,294.

 

I think that's pretty much equal.


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#7 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:31 PM

yup. There is no way it was double.

#8 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:33 PM



Also, Saanich households have twice as many cars per household than Langford residents. Goes to show how much Saanich was designed with the car in mind.

https://twitter.com/...3609719810?s=21



Fake news.

#9 marks_28

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:36 PM

Sorry, my bad all. I somehow read “nearly as many cars” as “nearly twice as many cars.” Makes a bit more sense now.
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#10 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 06:40 PM

Yup, all good.

It really looks like it doesn’t matter where you live, the number of vehicles per household is a product of household size if we correct for areas with rural populations (where you’re likely to have 2 cars, plus a pick-up for hauling stuff) hence why Metchosin, North Saanich, JDF and Highlands are 2.2-2.5.

But Sooke, despite its distance from downtown, is nearly equal to Saanich with 1.9 for Sooke vs 1.7 for Saanich. Colwood is equal to Sooke, Langford is 1.8.

Victoria has 1.1 vehicles but also the lowest number of residents per dwelling at 1.8. Every other muni is 2.0 to 2.7.

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#11 exc911ence

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 06:52 PM

No word on Sidney? Between my wife and I, we have one truck, one SUV, one car and six motorcycles.

 

Winning! 


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#12 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 07:07 PM

Sidney is 1.5 vehicles, with 2.0 people per dwelling.


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#13 marks_28

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 08:58 PM

Still crazy to me that some households spend more on transportation than housing costs. Does that apply to anyone here?

#14 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 09:18 PM

No, not even close in my/our case.

But I can totally see it. A brand new car financed over 60 months is going to run you between $500 and $1,000 just in payments. Add $150 in insurance and you’re up there even before you fill it up.

Consider that an average family vehicle that rolls off the dealer lot is about $50k, but a nicer vehicle is easily $70-$90k, and you’re financing that over five years. That’s a lot of $$$. But you can live in a downtown condo and still drive that $90k Tahoe, and while you’re likely to drive it less overall you’ll put more wear on it by driving almost exclusively in the city. And wear means more maintenance over the long term so it all balances out when compared to someone driving on the 17 from NSaan into town then back again who’ll put on a lot more mileage.

I dunno, this report just speaks to common sense. Cars are expensive, and nice cars have to be paid off in five years while your mortgage is over 25, and lemme tell you, there are plenty of young people living in $350k condos but driving $75k vehicles. It’s easy to see how the monthly costs are close.

But what the report doesn’t touch on is the opportunity cost of waiting for that bus rather than driving in. You could be home in 20 minutes if you drive, or 60 if you rely on transit. So who’s really paying more, right, and who’s really further ahead as we can look at this in so many more ways than the simplistic data we're seeing here. And what about kids and their needs? The kid who needs to get to baseball practice and the other to dance class can’t do it without mom dropping them off then dad picking them up. Again, opportunity costs, and transportation is now more lifestyle than just mobility.

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#15 sebberry

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 09:47 PM

Gas, insurance and routine maintenance cost me around $7,000/yr for the car.   My strata fees alone are $4,900.


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#16 rjag

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:37 AM

Still crazy to me that some households spend more on transportation than housing costs. Does that apply to anyone here?

 

What if you have no mortgage? then yup, I spend way more on Transportation!!


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#17 lanforod

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:42 AM

Yes, but only because I have no mortgage as well (ignoring the rental condo).


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#18 exc911ence

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:50 AM

Sidney is 1.5 vehicles, with 2.0 people per dwelling.

 

I guess we're blowing that bellcurve then.  :thumbsup:

 

It's hard to believe that anyone can have higher transportation costs than housing in a place where an average SFH is approaching a million dollars. But then all of our vehicles were purchased used (depreciation is for rich people) and paid for in cash at the time of purchase so I have no idea what life is like with a mortgage-sized car payment. 



#19 marks_28

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 09:09 AM

Yeah, I figured those without a mortgage would be skewing the data.

 

I'm probably an outlier in the other direction too. Have never bought a new car (or likely never will), so I agree on the "depreciation is for rich people" point. And I bike most places, so I'm only filling up on gas once a month.

 

And good point on the opportunity costs with transit versus driving. But on the other hand, there are also added health benefits to biking, and a 20 min drive might only be a 25-30 min bike ride ;) (On trips that are bikeable - before I hear from the "you can't carry a cart load of goods on your bike from Costco" crowd lol)



#20 sebberry

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 10:03 AM

Yeah, I figured those without a mortgage would be skewing the data.

 

I'm probably an outlier in the other direction too. Have never bought a new car (or likely never will), so I agree on the "depreciation is for rich people" point. And I bike most places, so I'm only filling up on gas once a month.

 

And good point on the opportunity costs with transit versus driving. But on the other hand, there are also added health benefits to biking, and a 20 min drive might only be a 25-30 min bike ride ;) (On trips that are bikeable - before I hear from the "you can't carry a cart load of goods on your bike from Costco" crowd lol)

 

That explains your thoughts on the Esquimalt Lagoon closure...  :1954_dancing:


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