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PROPOSED
611-635 Chatham Street / 610-618 Herald Street
Uses: rental, commercial
Address: 611-635 Chatham Street / 610-618 Herald Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 5
611-635 Chatham Street / 610-618 Herald Street is a proposal to build two rental buildings between the 600-blo... (view full profile)
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[Downtown] 611-635 Chatham / 610-618 Herald | Rentals; commercial | 5 & 5-storeys | Proposed


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#41 G-Man

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 10:00 AM

^ I think that would be a good trajectory. It is too bad that they are not taking a page from the Ironworks development and doing almost Rob has suggested here and build them separately. I still think that you can change the floor and façade layout without it looking phony or disneyesque. I mean I think even a slight change in the roof lines could make a difference here.

 

On the comparison with the London terraced flats I am going to have to disagree that we would want to emulate that. Even in the linked picture that is a terrible pedestrian experience, too monotonous.

 

Back to this one, is it me or does the ground floor compared to the "people" there seem extremely short? Seems that combining monotony with limited ground floor interaction on a currently quiet street could be a recipe for disaster. Again one only needs to look at the excellent corner aspect of the Ironworks (and yes I will admit I was worried about nothing there).


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#42 aastra

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 11:18 AM

Modern ground floors are often way too short for the context of an older district. And they often have too little glazing as well. And the pillars and dividers tend to be way too thick and inelegant.

 

But modern ground floors must be that way, otherwise they wouldn't fit in, right?

 

Why not sacrifice part of the second level on one section to create a really tall ground floor?

 

And why not do the same thing on another section but by inserting a short row of two-level townhouses?



#43 aastra

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 11:23 AM

Two or three separate buildings would be preferable, but I have no problem with clever techniques that might fool us into thinking one long & unified complex isn't actually one long & unified complex. If it's done well.

 

Methinks a rooftop public space atop one section -- with a visible trellis or pergola or some tall planters or whatever -- could also suggest variation in rooflines where no actual variation exists.


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#44 Jackerbie

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 11:58 AM

Re: ground floor height, that's the only thing that is varied. This site is sloped, but you would barely know by looking at the rendering. Notice that the cornicing below the second storey is a straight line all the way across the building, but the distance between that and the awnings gradually widens towards Government. So illusion is that all the ground floors are the same height, but really the ceiling gets higher and higher as you walk west.

 

Even the two existing auto buildings on Herald have different roof and floor heights, and they're only a single storey!



#45 aastra

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 12:11 PM

For sure they're going to have to address the slope, but there's no obvious/intentional variation re: one ground floor in the middle is two meters taller than the ones on either side (unlike, for example, the individual buildings that currently stand along the east end of the block). This is what I mean.

 

Anyway, a super quick and dirty mashup now makes me think the ground floor heights don't even need to be varied. Using some of the ground level and the second level for townhouses (or even visually suggesting such) might make for a massive improvement. I also threw a roofline variation on the two lighter coloured sections.

 

Super quick and dirty but you get the idea (I gotta admit, I enjoy it when a rendering disappoints but then invites discussion and creative photoshopping):

 

Herald_Hypothetical.jpg


Edited by aastra, 15 October 2020 - 12:12 PM.

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#46 aastra

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 12:13 PM

Summary: simply having less of that same ground floor makes the whole thing seem more pleasing to my eye.


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#47 Jackerbie

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 03:57 PM

For sure they're going to have to address the slope, but there's no obvious/intentional variation re: one ground floor in the middle is two meters taller than the ones on either side (unlike, for example, the individual buildings that currently stand along the east end of the block). This is what I mean.

 

Yah, we're saying the same thing. What they've done is taken one of the site advantages and erased it.


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#48 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:18 AM

Today’s T-C has an article about this development : https://www.timescol...town-1.24224129

#49 Rob Randall

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:59 AM

Who's the architect on this one?


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#50 G-Man

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 07:35 AM

I am confused by the Government Street frontage pic... So it is two buildings?

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#51 Nparker

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 07:39 AM

I am confused by the Government Street frontage pic... So it is two buildings?

For reference.

tc-57799-web-herald-chatham-2-jpg.jpg



#52 Jackerbie

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 07:46 AM

Who's the architect on this one?

 

Integra, they're out of Vancouver

 

I am confused by the Government Street frontage pic... So it is two buildings?

 

Technically speaking it is a single building due to the shared underground parkade, but to someone walking by it looks like two buildings: one on Herald, one on Chatham. All of the massing changes along the facades are just that, facades. The landscape plan shows this better (Note that the breezeway from Herald into the courtyard is not open to the sky)

Capture.PNG



#53 Mike K.

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 08:05 AM

The Herald Street side also has a different design utilizing corrugated metal in lieu of only brick.


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#54 Rob Randall

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 08:09 AM

Yah, we're saying the same thing. What they've done is taken one of the site advantages and erased it.

 

Who's the architect on this one?

 

Integra, they're out of Vancouver

 

Sometimes I wonder if the out-of-town architects on local projects have actually done a proper site visit. 


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#55 Mike K.

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 08:12 AM

The design is growing on me, to be honest.

 

The only thing I would ask for is to give one or two 'segments' a height differentiation from the rest, or set a portion back from the street wall. But that could be impractical financially.


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#56 Nparker

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 08:23 AM

The Herald Street side needs work to break up the monotony of the proposed facade.



#57 Jackerbie

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 08:28 AM

It seems this isn't the first time Integra has done a monotonous facade. Here's one of their designs on Fraser Street in Vancouver:

 

234-01-Century-1227-1200x775.jpg


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#58 G-Man

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 05:50 AM

I had thought that the northwest corner was also part of this. That is a huge relief that it is not. If we could see a slight modification at the southeast and then in a few years a bit more flashy building goes into that northwest corner the block might not totally be lost.

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#59 Mike K.

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 06:03 AM

The shop just extended their lease for five years. So it could be on the menu in a few years.
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#60 Jackerbie

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Posted 28 October 2020 - 09:09 AM

So CBC did an editorial on the Carnegie Building in Vancouver, and I couldn't help but think of this project when I saw an image of the Dawson Block across the street. Very similar in massing and articulation, but not monotonous! Variation in first floor height between the two buildings! Different window and awnings treatments! Varied height! 

 

old-vancouver-postcard.jpg


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