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215 graves at Kamloops residential school | Discussion, news, and what we know so far


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#1041 dasmo

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 12:27 PM

Fair enough.... But the holocaust topic is fighting propaganda with propaganda to try and sort out what propaganda was closest to the truth? Shoot. even "History Is Written by the Victors" comes into question when you look at operation paper clip, how few culprits were actually prosecuted at Nuremburg, the creation of the UN and even our recent standing ovation in our parliament. The whole thing is a mess of fiction posing a truth.... To late and too far from the events to have a chance to sort it out. I get trying to draw the parallel to what might be happening now in the creations of new narratives and similar mechanisms to protect them. But the former subject has already transitioned into the realm of symbolism. Where Hitler and the Holocaust are symbols of the ultimate evil. Truth doesn't matter anymore. All anyone will hear is you deny the evil doing? You must be evil then. 


Edited by dasmo, 28 May 2024 - 12:28 PM.


#1042 max.bravo

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 12:38 PM

Truth matters to some people.

#1043 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 12:40 PM

Once a civilization establishes its 'creation story' it becomes nearly impossible to question it.


Canada is on a fast track to cementing our identity as a formerly genocidal state who built itself on the backs of atrocities committed against First Nations. This conclusion is nearly impossible to question without some kind of social ostracization. Soon it will be illegal to question the truth of our shared Canadian 'creation story'.




Yes this is a problem. A big problem.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 May 2024 - 12:41 PM.

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#1044 dasmo

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 12:56 PM

Truth matters to some people.

Belief matters to most. You said it yourself in the above quote. It's why it is problematic to try and use this as amo to fight that.... 



#1045 Mike K.

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 12:57 PM

In the 80s we started recognizing the exploits of Chinese labour in the formation of the nation, via railroads and other large, dangerous projects.

Now we are recognizing the terrible treatment of the First Nations. Eventually a society has to own up to its mistakes. In time we figure it out.

And in time, the government may even issue apologies and reparations to individuals who chose not to get vaccinated.

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#1046 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 01:07 PM

In the 80s we started recognizing the exploits of Chinese labour in the formation of the nation, via railroads and other lar

Now we are recognizing the terrible treatment of the First Nations. Eventually a society has to own up to its mistakes. In time we figure it out.

And in time, the government may even issue apologies and reparations to individuals who chose not to get vaccinated.

Which terrible treatment of First Nations? There has been lots. But the worst in contemporary terms is the CURRENT situation where so many live on reserves with limited opportunities and poor services.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 May 2024 - 01:09 PM.


#1047 max.bravo

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 01:36 PM

Is Canada obligated to provide opportunities, clean drinking water, housing, etc. on reserves? Genuine question - I don't know the ins and outs of the Indian Act. 

 

I don't think any of them are forced to live on reserves, are they? That said, if I had the chance to live somewhere rent-free & income tax free, it would be hard not to take it. 



#1048 max.bravo

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 02:07 PM

https://nationalpost...graves-kamloops

 

B.C. First Nation now referring to 215 suspected graves as 'anomalies' instead of 'children'
 

Three years after Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc first published the explosive news that they had uncovered the graves of 215 children, the First Nation is now officially referring to the 215 as “anomalies” rather than confirmed graves.

 

In a recent statement, the First Nation announced a Day of Reflection to mark the anniversary of the 2021 announcement, which quickly garnered headlines around the world...

The Day of Reflection statement employed almost exactly the same language as in the initial 2021 announcement, except instead of the term “remains of 215 children,” it was now using the term “anomalies.
 

“With the help of a ground penetrating radar specialist, the stark truth of the preliminary findings came to light — the confirmation of 215 anomalies were detected,” reads the Day of Reflection statement.

Compare that to the May 27, 2021 announcement from the First Nation: “This past weekend, with the help of a ground penetrating radar specialist, the stark truth of the preliminary findings came to light — the confirmation of the remains of 215 children who were students of the Kamloops Indian Residential School.”

What had been found in 2021 was evidence of soil disturbances.


Edited by max.bravo, 28 May 2024 - 02:09 PM.


#1049 Mike K.

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 02:31 PM

Which terrible treatment of First Nations? There has been lots. But the worst in contemporary terms is the CURRENT situation where so many live on reserves with limited opportunities and poor services.


I agree the current situation is being overlooked, by emphasizing the past.

The Trudeau government doesn’t want us to focus on the current state of affairs.

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#1050 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 May 2024 - 11:37 PM

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#1051 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 May 2024 - 05:00 AM

Canada’s Elusive Unmarked Graves: a Third-Anniversary Update

 

Many of the public figures who stoked the country’s morbid 2021 social panic are now doing their best to change the subject.

 

https://quillette.co...ersary-updated/

 

 

 

 

Not so much—for it turned out that the First Nation’s announcement had been based on a misunderstanding of Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) technology. The underlying GPR survey data reflected soil anomalies below the earth’s surface—anomalies that, yes, can be associated with graves, but also with tree roots, the remains of old pipes and irrigation ditches, rocks, and other very boring things that are not dead children. But by the time Canadians (including those journalists who pride themselves on hard-headed scepticism in pretty much any other context) stopped to consider this, it was too late. On May 28, 2021, just a day after those first explosive reports of “unmarked graves,” Canada’s House of Commons fast-tracked a bill creating a new holiday called the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation (which Trudeau spent surfing, for some strange reason). And millions of Canadians were wearing orange T-shirts honouring the memories of those 215 dead children whose names we didn’t know, but who we were absolutely sure once existed.

 

In case, you’re wondering, yes, I wore the shirt. I still have it somewhere in my closet.

 

It’s been three years. During that time, not a single grave has been discovered at Kamloops. No bodies. No human remains. No caskets. The Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation has offered periodic assurances to the effect that, oh yes, they’ll definitely be getting around to performing a real forensic investigation. But they seem in no hurry to do so—notwithstanding the band’s increasingly dubious claim to be sitting on the biggest mass-murder site in Canadian history.

 

Or at least they once claimed that. In a recent media release, the band quietly substituted the word “anomalies” for “children” or “graves.”


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 May 2024 - 05:03 AM.


#1052 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 May 2024 - 05:08 AM

Dowsing for Dollars: Is the International Commission on Missing Persons burying its brand in Canada’s hoax of the century?

 

 

 

https://irsrg.ca/art...of-the-century/



#1053 Daveyboy

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Posted 29 May 2024 - 08:56 AM

Eventually, the truth always comes out.  In this case it may take awhile but the backlash will set back Indigenous relations to a considerable degree.  Most unfortunate, but there are always consequences to bad decisions.


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#1054 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 May 2024 - 08:59 AM

Like all the burned down churches. With no suspects identified.

Although that might be the consequences of having a poorly-educated (irony, right?) underclass living in 700 “nations”.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 May 2024 - 09:02 AM.

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#1055 Nparker

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Posted 29 May 2024 - 09:02 AM

Eventually, the truth always comes out.  In this case it may take awhile but the backlash will set back Indigenous relations to a considerable degree...

TRC.png



#1056 dasmo

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Posted 29 May 2024 - 09:05 AM

Like all the burned down churches. With no suspects identified.


Makes one wonder if that’s the point of it all. It’s ironic that the same organization who created their situation are also crafting this narrative. Give 8 million dollars to me and I might go along with it too.

When they wrote the Gradual Civilization Act they tried bribing them with property rights. Of course back then that would be laughable.

#1057 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 May 2024 - 12:41 PM

Terry Glavin: Canada slowly acknowledging there never was a 'mass grave'

 

There was much that was dark about residential schools, but no graves have been confirmed at Kamloops to this day

 

 

 

Within the T’Kemlups community, however, almost from the beginning there were serious misgivings about the way their story was being told. The 14 major families within the community made it known to Casimir early on that an excavation of the orchard site should begin as soon as possible. Three years and nearly $8 million in federal funding later, no excavation has occurred.

 

Chief Casimir says the work being done is “in compliance with Secwépemc laws, legal traditions, worldviews, values and protocols.” However: “Our investigative findings and investigative steps are currently being kept confidential to preserve the integrity of the investigation.”

 

https://vancouversun..._source=twitter


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 30 May 2024 - 12:41 PM.


#1058 Nparker

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Posted 30 May 2024 - 12:46 PM

What's the tradition for accepting $8 million from Canadian taxpayers with zero accountability?
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#1059 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 May 2024 - 12:48 PM

What's the tradition for accepting $8 million from Canadian taxpayers with zero accountability?

 

 

Another $312M.

 

In any case, since the Kamloops story broke, the federal government has committed $320 million to assist in the search of residential school sites across Canada and to support “survivors.” The Residential Schools Missing Children Community Support Fund is for communities and families to research, locate and document burial sites, as well as to memorialize the deaths of children and return remains home.

 



#1060 max.bravo

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Posted 30 May 2024 - 01:16 PM

However: “Our investigative findings and investigative steps are currently being kept confidential to preserve the integrity of the investigation.”


Aka the “My girlfriend goes to a different school that’s why you can’t meet her” technique
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