3521 replies to this topic

[Casual Kev]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if you rezone a property to be more valuable to redevelop that it will be more expensive. It takes an expert in doublespeak to present the idea as an affordability path.... The highest density cities are not the most affordable. 

one action towards affordability is to stop sending people letters that their house is now worth a million dollars. Change evalue BC to an index value. It's supposed to be for tax purposes right? Next examine the building code. We need to allow for people to build less expensive homes. Net zero is very expensive to build to. Plus it's not necessarily better since it doesn't look at things like embodied energy or waist etc. For xample: A quadruple pane window is not repairable. it's also more to produce and ship and install because of it's weight. My old house had single pane windows that were 90 years old. A rock went through one pane in the front from a car passing. Cost $100 to fix....

 

Upzoning appreciates the land underneath homes because... you can build exponentially more square footage, hence more homes for the same lot.

 

Land value =/= home prices fundamentally speaking, but the two will approach each other in cities where residential landmass is dominated by SFHs.

[Mike K.]

^I’m not sure I understand paragraph 2.

[Victoria Watcher]

Me neither. It’s hard to understand. Missed the mark.

[Victoria Watcher]

And can all vocal proponents of this plan just point to one single jurisdiction in North America where this idea was tried and succeeded.

[LJ]

Just need a few of these....

 

https://commons.wiki...s_NYCHA_jeh.jpg

[Mike K.]

Mayor Helps in 2019:

I’ll be writing affordable housing blog posts throughout the year to keep you up to date as we move forward. Topics will range from tiny homes to intergenerational living, beginning today with “missing middle” housing.

…

The challenges to be addressed in creating more missing middle infill housing include maintaining greenspace and the urban forest, affordability, transportation, neighbourhood character, a sense of fear that comes from the perception of loss, and worries about the pace of change.

- https://lisahelpsvic...missing-middle/

Mayor Helps, 2022:

As noted in the post on the housing affordability crisis, unlike the City’s other housing policies, Missing Middle Housing won’t create affordable housing for very low, low and moderate income earners. But it will make home ownership more attainable for more working people in the city.

- https://lisahelpsvic...for-the-future/

The only category left is high income earners.

[Mike K.]

We went from starting off a series on housing affordability with referencing missing middle as one of the key ingredients, to straight up saying missing middle isn’t about affordability at all.

I think we all understand the trickle down effect. You may not afford that new missing middle townhome for $1 million, but that buyer will move out of their 2BR apartment that maybe you can afford, in theory. That’s historically been the case.

But in practice, there is such a high rate of in-migration and wealthy individuals situating in this region that only three years after touting missing middle as affordable housing, it is no longer politically palatable to refer to it as such.

There is only ONE thing that will address affordability: land.

Nothing else is going to change the situation now matter how many different schemes we come up with for the same parcels of real-estate. But we’ve backed ourselves into a political corner by condemning suburbs, the one true way out of an affordability crisis.

[Victoria Watcher]

That’s right. It’s not natural birth population expansion. It’s in-migration. There is no reason we must allow it.

[Mike K.]

And I’m ok with in-migration, but historically how it’s been managed is through making more land available for everyone. We’ve put a stop to that over the last 30 years, and now we have a severe affordability crisis.

And I don’t even know if saying we have a housing crisis is the right framing of the issue any more. We have a wealthy in-migration dilemma and a displacement issue. The crisis is in having the smallest urban region in Canada on a per capita basis, and not being willing to expand the land base to solve it.

[Nparker]

When you have CoV policies that actively discourage business, frighten away tourists and locals have the option to spend their money elsewhere, what else is left except to increase property taxes by upzoning the land?

[Victoria Watcher]

And I’m ok with in-migration, but historically how it’s been managed is through making more land available for everyone. We’ve put a stop to that over the last 30 years, and now we have a severe affordability crisis.

And I don’t even know if saying we have a housing crisis is the right framing of the issue any more. We have a wealthy in-migration dilemma and a displacement issue. The crisis is in having the smallest urban region in Canada on a per capita basis, and not being willing to expand the land base to solve it.

I concur with most of this. But the more people we have, and especially older, income secure activists we have, the more they have time to oppose development of vast swaths of essentially wilderness. Where we could easily build new, very green, very environmentally sensitive cities.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 May 2022 - 07:49 AM.

[Mike K.]

The title of that 2019 blog post by the mayor, btw:

Affordable Housing: The Missing Middle
- https://lisahelpsvic...missing-middle/

The mayor says they can’t find staff because of housing. The staff aren’t coming because of high costs for everything. Your dollar goes further in Edmonton, and Kelowna. That’s no secret. There’s no magic.

We have become a wealthy mecca for retirees and no amount of gerrymandering properties in a small enclave of the region will solve the fundamental problem unless we provide people with more land to live on in the most desirable form of housing: SFDs.

Anything short of that, in Canada, and on this massive land-rich island, is manipulating the free market. The outcomes are then what they are, stratospheric land costs impacting the delivery of all housing in the region. And it’s going to get far, far worse. $1.4 million average for a house? How about $2 million.

[Nparker]

...We have become a wealthy mecca for retirees...

This has been true for many decades. It just seems more acute now because the dollar figures have become larger.

I am sure aastra can dig up stories to illustrate that the local affordability crisis is nothing new.

[Mike K.]

It’s different now. We have never seen an influx as large as we have now, in such a short period of time. The new purchasers are driving up the average to $1.4 million; they’re newcomers with very deep pockets who are choosing the relative remoteness of the island. And every time they buy, they don’t return stock back into the local market.

I’m decades past we had retirees moving here too, but it wasn’t to this degree. Of course a large part of what’s going on is finally the boomer retirement wave has arrived, and we know it was coming, but didn’t plan for it (we planned 1% annual growth into the 2030s. We’re averaging around 1.5%).

[Victoria Watcher]

And some of these boomers and others have enough money to buy many years before they plan to move here, too.

[Tom Braybrook]

interestingly, these four houses, all listed at the same time, along the stretch of Richardson now a bike route, would seem ideal for missing middle development...all assessed for $1.3 million (the average for victoria)... but...

 

 

all four are listed for at least $550k over assessed value - almost as if some folks were "anticipating" some sort of new planning approach...

 

 

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[Victoria Watcher]

Interesting.

[dasmo]

interestingly, these four houses, all listed at the same time, along the stretch of Richardson now a bike route, would seem ideal for missing middle development...all assessed for $1.3 million (the average for victoria)... but...


all four are listed for at least $550k over assessed value - almost as if some folks were "anticipating" some sort of new planning approach...

A perfect example of what happens to prices at just a rumour of such up zoning…

[Mike K.]

Description:

Incredibly rare opportunity to acquire approximately 48,000 sq feet of land with a frontage on Richardson of 292 feet. This opportunity consists of 4 separate parcels of land with 4 homes. Buy and hold as a long-term investment or get ready for Missing Middle Housing Initiative. This parcel and the soon to be finished AAA new bike lanes on Richardson is a great chance for development and the creation of much needed housing in an amazing location. The City of Victoria's initial review will support a townhouse development with an FSR of 1:1. No showings without an accepted offer. Homes are tenanted so please respect their privacy. Please call Sean for more details 250-920-6511. (24715718)

[Mike K.]

I mean it makes perfect sense. But the City saying they don’t think it’ll affect land prices is a little bonkers, isn’t it?