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CoV zoning density plan for "missing middle"


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#21 punk cannonballer

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 12:38 PM

If we don't build what the people moving here want then we are not do anything about affordability. 

 

That's a quality fantasy world you've got going there. unfortunately 'what people want' isn't the only consideration for housing. I mean, I want that $6m house listed on Ripon.



#22 On the Level

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 12:48 PM

This isn't a Victoria problem. This is a Canadian problem. Here is a story from Oshawa.

 

https://www.macleans...t-housing-2021/

 

This isn't a Canada problem as it's happening all over the world.  Australia median house price has also reached $1M

 

If we don’t build what the people moving here want, then maybe they won’t come?

 

More likely to force out locals as the stock would dwindle further.  You can always add the cost of a renovation, especially if you have the funds after selling in Vancouver or Toronto.



#23 dasmo

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 02:04 PM

What people want is a place to live, not a crowd sourced hotel room. 


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#24 Mike K.

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 04:55 PM

I’m telling you all, the solution isn’t to funnel more people into four cities in BC.

There are 162 municipalities in this province, and many more communities within reach of those municipalities.

100 years ago 80% of the population was spread relatively evenly across this province (well, Prince George down), and today 80% of the population is within only several cities.

What do we expect will continue to happen as the urban/rural divide continues to see more people living in urban areas?

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#25 dasmo

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 05:34 PM

I’m telling you all, the solution isn’t to funnel more people into four cities in BC.

There are 162 municipalities in this province, and many more communities within reach of those municipalities.

100 years ago 80% of the population was spread relatively evenly across this province (well, Prince George down), and today 80% of the population is within only several cities.

What do we expect will continue to happen as the urban/rural divide continues to see more people living in urban areas?

You need to start hanging out with the agenda 2030 crowd if you want these kinda changes. This is a global effort now if you hadn't noticed.

 

What does this even mean???? 

"11.b By 2020, substantially increase the number of cities and human settlements adopting and implementing integrated policies and plans towards inclusion,  resource efficiency, mitigation and adaptation to climate change, resilience to disasters, and develop and implement, in line with the Sendai Framework for Disaster Risk Reduction, holistic disaster risk management at all levels."

 

https://sustainabled...lopment web.pdf



#26 Moderation

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 01:13 PM

I’m telling you all, the solution isn’t to funnel more people into four cities in BC.

There are 162 municipalities in this province, and many more communities within reach of those municipalities.

100 years ago 80% of the population was spread relatively evenly across this province (well, Prince George down), and today 80% of the population is within only several cities.

What do we expect will continue to happen as the urban/rural divide continues to see more people living in urban areas?

 

 100 years ago in Canada as a whole it was about 50-50 rural urban and the trend to more urban was well on the way. BC has one of the lowest rate of people living in rural areas now. The mountains might have something to do with that. Alberta and Ontario are also low.

 

https://www150.statc...2015004-eng.htm



#27 Mattjvd

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 02:07 PM

I’m telling you all, the solution isn’t to funnel more people into four cities in BC.

There are 162 municipalities in this province, and many more communities within reach of those municipalities.

100 years ago 80% of the population was spread relatively evenly across this province (well, Prince George down), and today 80% of the population is within only several cities.

What do we expect will continue to happen as the urban/rural divide continues to see more people living in urban areas?


I'm about 75% on the same page. We don't need to be funneling more people into the GTA and Fraser Valley. I think we should be trying to funnel people into medium sized cities (I'd say Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg too, but that's a tougher sell haha). The CRD, Kelowna, Halifax, does Ottawa still count? It is getting kinda big these days. There is plenty of room for 1,000,000 people in the CRD if planners wanted it.
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#28 Mike K.

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 06:49 PM

100 years ago in Canada as a whole it was about 50-50 rural urban and the trend to more urban was well on the way. BC has one of the lowest rate of people living in rural areas now. The mountains might have something to do with that. Alberta and Ontario are also low.

https://www150.statc...2015004-eng.htm

I don’t think that takes into consideration the growth of communities over time in metro areas, as in 100 years ago Sooke was a village and its residents lived rural lives. Today it’s part of an urban area and considered urban.

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#29 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 06:52 PM

100 years ago you needed 10x more people on farms.  That's one of the wonders of mechanization and processed/preserved foods.

 

We spend less on food than ever.  Countered I guess by spending more on housing.

 

thr-income-spent-on-food_custom-ed63b133b0b3914191e299c179a61271caa0db71.png


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 January 2022 - 06:58 PM.


#30 Mike K.

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 06:52 PM

I'm about 75% on the same page. We don't need to be funneling more people into the GTA and Fraser Valley. I think we should be trying to funnel people into medium sized cities (I'd say Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg too, but that's a tougher sell haha). The CRD, Kelowna, Halifax, does Ottawa still count? It is getting kinda big these days. There is plenty of room for 1,000,000 people in the CRD if planners wanted it.


Since the 70s popular culture has looked down on rural areas as lesser than. Culture and creativity can only happen in cities, right?

It also doesn’t help that many jobs disappeared from rural communities when industry moved away or shut down. Governments could play a role in developing economic opportunities outside of cities but they don’t seem too interested (like Langford vs Victoria for provincial offices). The feds in generations past were more willing to spread the employment around a bit more.

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#31 Mattjvd

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 09:11 PM

Since the 70s popular culture has looked down on rural areas as lesser than. Culture and creativity can only happen in cities, right?

It also doesn’t help that many jobs disappeared from rural communities when industry moved away or shut down. Governments could play a role in developing economic opportunities outside of cities but they don’t seem too interested (like Langford vs Victoria for provincial offices). The feds in generations past were more willing to spread the employment around a bit more.


Yeah, I guess instead of trying to go against that cultural notion I was thinking of meeting it half way. I figured it would be easier to convince people to move to medium sized cities than it would be to small towns.

#32 m3m

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 11:37 PM

We just need to build several new cities. Egypt is building a new capital city right now.

#33 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 01:56 AM

That sounds easy.

But almost nobody would support a new city in southwest BC.

#34 Mike K.

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 10:17 AM

Speaking more to the rural/urban divide, below is what Statscan defines them as (see below). Our concept of ‘small’ in 1880 and 2022 is not the same, in terms of population, but we don’t appear to have shifted the definition over a century and a half? Is that correct? It’s hard to find more info on this.

Now I’m really curious about what the divide is and has historically has been when viewed through a sliding scale of reasonable social/population definitions, like a large city being 100,000 people in 1880, and today’s social definition of a large city being home to 1 million or more. So, with that in mind, shouldn’t a ‘rural’ community of today be one with 10,000 people? Here are those definitions:

Rural area: Generally, an area with a population under 1,000, although the definition is slightly different for censuses before 1981.

Population centre: An area with a population of at least 1,000 and a density of 400 or more people per square kilometre. Population centres are classified into three groups, depending on the size of their population:

small population centres have a population between 1,000 and 29,999

medium population centres have a population between 30,000 and 99,999

large population centres have a population of 100,000 or over.
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#35 kitty surprise

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 11:54 AM

That sounds easy.

But almost nobody would support a new city in southwest BC.


I've been touting Prince George for some time.

Lots of room for everyone to get their own SFD on a leafy cul-de-sac.

Lots of room for SJW pet projects, too.

It's an easy, embarrassingly obvious solution. Why aren't the Conestoga Wagons getting packed??

#36 Nparker

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 02:19 PM

...Why aren't the Conestoga Wagons getting packed??

Why isn't the Province creating all of its homeless shelters there? 



#37 Mike K.

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 08:18 AM

What’s absolutely bonkers is all of Vancouver Island now is home to $1 million houses. You can’t buy for under $1 million, unless it’s an undesirable property.

Think about it. From Cowichan to Port Hardy, houses are now $1 million. In Victoria we’ve always lead the price points, but now small communities have seen their prices surge to Victoria levels in the space of a year.

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#38 DavidSchell

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 08:34 AM

I've been touting Prince George for some time.

Lots of room for everyone to get their own SFD on a leafy cul-de-sac.

Lots of room for SJW pet projects, too.

It's an easy, embarrassingly obvious solution. Why aren't the Conestoga Wagons getting packed??

 

As my wife and I often say, "Prince George is a nice place to be from" :)


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