Jump to content

      












Photo

Missing Middle Housing Initiative (MMHI) in the City of Victoria


  • Please log in to reply
1208 replies to this topic

#41 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 33,785 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 08:36 AM

...What systems are currently in place that are sending us down the wrong path?

What this a rhetorical question?

council-1.PNG



#42 Moderation

Moderation
  • Suspended User
  • 364 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 08:40 AM

Victoria has a population of 400,000. If you use only the City of Victoria population it paints the cities council in an even a worse light.



#43 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 19,316 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 08:46 AM

For Victoria to be facing the same issues as LA and Vancouver, means we’ve failed at city building, doesn’t it?

When Vancouver had a population of 400,000 it wasn’t struggling to house people. What are we doing wrong? What systems are currently in place that are sending us down the wrong path?

 

Wealthy immigrant family buys home in Toronto from long term residents for $300K over asking price. Toronto family decides to come to Victoria and buys home for $200K over asking price and still pockets $1M. Stats show Victoria house bought by Canadian residents and expanded immigration without corresponding housing plan isn't a factor in local prices. 


  • Matt R. likes this

#44 Moderation

Moderation
  • Suspended User
  • 364 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 08:56 AM

Some info on where Victoria area house buyers came from in 2021

 

In 2021, we saw 72% of buyers already living in Greater Victoria, while 28% were from out of town.   As a reminder for why the split is important, out of town buyers have a much greater impact on the market than in-town buyers.  They buy properties without listing one for sale (similar to first time buyers and investors) while in-town buyers generally sell one property and buy another.  The biggest source of out of town buyers by far is the lower mainland at 11% of buyers, with the runner up being buyers from Ontario/Quebec, Alberta, and the rest of BC being roughly equal in second place.

2021_origin.png

https://househuntvic...e-from-in-2021/



#45 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 35,235 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 08:56 AM

Good points, Moderation.

Now, other than Ontario bedroom communities, does anyone else have over 28% buyers from away? I’m sure Moose Jaw doesn’t.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 January 2022 - 08:58 AM.


#46 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 19,316 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:00 AM

Some info on where Victoria area house buyers came from in 2021

 

Which is what I just said. A foreign buyer who purchases a home elsewhere in Canada and those people then buy in Victoria are not treated as a foreign buyer. With housing supply tight, it does not take a big increase in demand to drive prices up substantially. 

 

I have nothing against immigrants, my problem was adding 200K a year to immigration with no plan to add housing to support them.



#47 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 71,974 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:00 AM

I’m not talking about the cost of housing so much as the availability.

Note that missing middle is not framed as affordable housing, it’s framed as just supply of housing.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#48 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 71,974 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:03 AM

My contention is we have vast amounts of land to build on, but we’re forbidden from doing it. The stretch from Sooke to Renfrew is 70km. It’s vast wilderness 99% of the way.

Why?
  • Matt R. and Barrrister like this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#49 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 35,235 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:06 AM

Protectionist groups that already own homes. And like it the way it is.

For all the outcry about “affiodavke housing” most people already have it, thank you very much. And are not joining any groups to advocate for it.

Ever seen huge affordable housing rallies? Or protests or even serious campaigns?

Now, ever seen any against development or logging or quarries or dams or pipelines?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 January 2022 - 09:08 AM.


#50 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 19,316 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:07 AM

I’m not talking about the cost of housing so much as the availability.

Note that missing middle is not framed as affordable housing, it’s framed as just supply of housing.

 

I know how it is framed! Every house that comes up for sale will now have developers bidding on it as well. That will help a lot with afforability!


  • Barrrister and Victoria Watcher like this

#51 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 71,974 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:10 AM

Protectionist groups that already own homes. And like it the way it is.

For all the outcry about “affiodavke housing” most people already have it, thank you very much. And are not joining any groups to advocate for it.

Ever seen huge affordable housing rallies? Or protests or even serious campaigns?

Now, ever seen any against development or logging or quarries or dams or pipelines?


Let’s put affordability aside. People have nowhere to buy houses. You could fit 50,000 people between Sooke and Renfrew just along the highway on development sites no denser than Metchosin.
  • Barrrister likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#52 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 35,235 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:11 AM

Let’s put affordability aside. People have nowhere to buy houses. You could fit 50,000 people between Sooke and Renfrew just along the highway on development sites no denser than Metchosin.


And presumably they be relatively easy to service with new water supply and their own sewage systems (like Sooke has).

But where is the political will?

#53 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 71,974 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:14 AM

Very easy.

People know they have to pay for roads, sewage and water. Obviously, right? They’ll pay. But right now they can’t. There is zero interest in developing thousands of acres parallel to Highway 14, while we grapple with lack of housing in the CoV, in Sidney, Sooke, View Royal…

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#54 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 35,235 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:16 AM

Look at the bulkshit the silver spray guys went thru fur 20 years.

Who wants that x 100 for highway 14?



Michael Thornton has waited nearly two decades to bring people out to Possession Point in East Sooke to show off the heart of his Silver Spray development.

The Vancouver developer’s dream for the controversial project is finally taking shape as work starts on the first oceanfront cottage showhome and a series of decks along the prime oceanfront land.

“It’s taken 17 years to be an overnight success,” Thornton said while showing off the gem of his 70-hectare Silver Spray lands. “This is going to be spectacular.”

https://www.timescol...nderway-4587987

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 January 2022 - 09:18 AM.


#55 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 71,974 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:17 AM

Oh I agree.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#56 Matt R.

Matt R.
  • Member
  • 4,934 posts

Posted 28 January 2022 - 10:59 PM

Let’s put affordability aside. People have nowhere to buy houses. You could fit 50,000 people between Sooke and Renfrew just along the highway on development sites no denser than Metchosin.


That’s the high bank waterfront I want. Get it going, Mike!

#57 rjag

rjag
  • Member
  • 6,363 posts
  • LocationSi vis pacem para bellum

Posted 29 January 2022 - 07:05 AM

Being an election year, its pretty apparent that theres certain 'progressive' elements weaponizing the 'missing middle' argument.

 

I absolutely love the idea of far more townhomes and family size condos and think we will all benefit from encouraging more of these. 

 

However, demonising the current SHF homeowner and claiming they're racist and nimby etc etc is not helping anyone. 

 

When prospective new local politicians as well as some incumbents claim this will solve affordability is where we see who's dipping into the Meth. I'd like to see some actual numbers...you know $ figures that back up those claims.

 

So what is an affordable $ figure for a 3 bed 1,400ft townhouse in Victoria or a 3 bed 1,200ft condo? 

 

Lets ignore the political theatrics and progressive labelling/name calling and just simply crunch the numbers. Theres a few developers on here that monitor this page, so lets see some real world examples of 'affordable missing middle homes?

 

CMHC says the average household income is $89k before taxes etc. Lets use that with a $50k down payment and a $150k down payment and $1750 monthly expenses. The RBC mortgage affordability calculator  indicates a mortgage of $338k and $438k respectively.

 

So please, any prospective or current municipal politicians or developers that claim the missing middle is the answer to affordability and retaining the workforce etc, please provide actual real world examples of a family home in the CRD Core for $488k or $588k? Remember its got to be in the core because Langford/Colwood are anathema in the local urban planners circles.

 

Lets see numbers.


  • LJ and Tailor like this

#58 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 71,974 posts

Posted 29 January 2022 - 07:48 AM

Don’t forget the City’s consultant said this won’t even impact SFD real estate costs. I’m already seeing higher priced SFD lots promoting missing middle zoning. It’s happening before they even vote on the change.

The debate has also shifted to housing supply, not affordability. A year ago the talking point was $700k townhomes in the core. Today those same units are $900k, as a starting point. And this zoning will require Step Code designs, making the future units priced at a relative premium.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#59 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 35,235 posts

Posted 29 January 2022 - 08:26 AM

Vancouver eyes allowing single-family home owners to build sixplexes on their lots

 

 

Vancouver council has voted to explore ways to allow as many as six homes to be built on any residential lot in the city as part of its quest to find ways to make more housing accessible to current and would-be residents.

 

That move puts Vancouver in the company of a cluster of cities in Canada and the United States – including Minneapolis, Minn.; Portland, Ore.; Toronto; and Los Angeles – that are grappling with rising housing costs and complaints that middle-class people are being pushed out of major cities. The jurisdictions are also introducing new property-use policies aimed at putting more people on the same amount of land.

 

They, and others, are experimenting with initiatives to allow everything from laneway homes to small apartment buildings in what have been vast tracts of urban land reserved for single-family homes.

 

“That was quite a step forward for this council,” said Bryn Davidson of Lanefab/Design Build, a builder who helped develop the concept and is looking forward to the eventual change this could bring.

 

But Mr. Davidson added that the initiative, which likely won’t result in a staff report outlining a possible policy until early next year, will only be successful if it is an option for every single-house residential lot in the city and isn’t loaded down with a complicated process. Vancouver has suggested starting with a cap of 2,000 lots.

 

Vancouver changed its zoning rules in 2009 to allow laneway houses on most lots, resulting in about 5,000 applications to build those small homes. The city’s move to allow duplexes, a citywide policy, has received 450 applications in the past three years.

 

“The success of the laneway program was that it was citywide. That is the key piece,” said Mr. Davidson, whose company builds laneway and passive houses.

 

The vote on Wednesday to approve an exploration of sixplexes included requests from Mayor Kennedy Stewart and various councillors for staff to consider all kinds of conditions that should be put in place. For example, they want staff to look at whether three of any six units could be required to be affordable for people making less than median income, what kinds of fees should be put in place to limit speculation or excess profit-taking, how to prevent pre-1940s houses from being demolished in favour of sixplexes, how to protect any renters in the existing housing, and whether the units could be all above-ground.

 

https://www.theglobe...uild-sixplexes/

 

 

 

 

^ that last paragraph probably means it'll be watered down to the point of having no impact.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 January 2022 - 08:28 AM.

  • Nparker and rjag like this

#60 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 71,974 posts

Posted 29 January 2022 - 08:38 AM

That doesn’t sound workable, does it?

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users