127 replies to this topic

[todd]

What percent is customary to tack on if it’s a government contract?

[Victoria Watcher]

The town of Ladysmith’s plan to borrow $13.5 million for a new city hall has been defeated in an alternative-approval process.

A total of 2,135 voters, or 28.8 per cent of eligible electors, submitted response forms to the municipality opposing a loan authorization bylaw.

Opponents handily killed the plan. Under provincial rules 10 per cent of electors, or in this case 741 electors, were needed to defeat it.

Ladysmith had hoped to build a more spacious city hall and consolidate operations, as well as add additional square footage for housing at the proposed Buller Street and First Avenue location.

“We respect the results of the alternative-approval process and will carefully consider next steps,” Mayor Aaron Stone said in a statement Wednesday.


https://www.timescol...ty-hall-9143722

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 June 2024 - 02:24 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Saanich is looking to partner with the private sector on an estimated $172-million redevelopment of its operations-centre land on McKenzie Avenue.

 

Council has directed district staff to start work to identify a private-sector partner who will develop a master plan for the site at McKenzie Avenue and Borden Street in collaboration with Saanich.

 

The district would expect a single payment of about $30 million from a developer for the development lands while retaining ownership of the entire site in perpetuity.

About 300 staff based at the current operations centre look after transportation, parks, water, sewer and solid waste in the district.

 

The hope is that the redeveloped site will include facilities for municipal services as well as rental housing and commercial spaces, with buildings that could be up to 18 storeys. Ten per cent of the new residential units could be available at below-market rates.

 

Retaining ownership while generating revenue from the use of the site is a creative solution for a needed facility, said Mayor Dean Murdock, noting Saanich would receive lease payments and tax revenue from the development. “It offsets the cost that would otherwise be fully borne by taxpayers and allows us to generate revenue.”

 

Coun. Karen Harper said the district would be providing a needed service — a new operations centre — as well as housing, with a component that is affordable. “And we’re doing it in a way that limits the burden on our taxpayers.”

 

Council is hoping to get elector approval to borrow as much as $150 million for the project, likely through an alternative approval process that’s expected to happen in the next six months. In that process, 10 per cent or more of eligible electors have to submit forms in opposition to the initiative for it to fail.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...re-land-9649629

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 October 2024 - 04:54 AM.

[UDeMan]

Might be more costly to build here. I thought this land was not stable as it is marshy.

[max.bravo]

I wonder if they’re hoping Don Mann excavation just takes over saanich’s public works entirely at this point? They seem to do a lot of work for Saanich, and their yard is right around the corner.

That family also has a development company, so they could build out the residential and commercial components.

[Victoria Watcher]

Mann sold their lot to Saanich.

[Mike K.]

Their new lot is coming to Sooke Road opposite Slegg.

[Victoria Watcher]

Why did Saanich spend so much to buy the land?

 

 

Last year, Saanich purchased three properties from Don Mann Excavating on Lochside Drive, close to the Saanich Operations Centre. The purchase price was $25 million.

 

A B.C. Assessment search told me the combined assessed property values at the time was $11.1 million. Saanich’s land agent told me the land was appraised at $17 million. The purchase price was $25 million.

 

The purchase price was $8 million (nearly 50% more) than the appraisal! Alarm bells began ringing.

 

Initially, the purchase prices could be seen alongside the assessed values, but a current search showed they had been deleted. I spoke with an assessment agent who informed me that they review sale prices to ensure they only display fair market values and that this sale wasn’t representative so it was removed from the property information.

 

This indicated the purchase price was much higher than the norm.

 

A commercial/industrial realtor in town felt the price paid for these properties was on the high side compared with other sales.

 

I submitted a Freedom of Information request to Saanich for all information leading to the determination of the purchase price.

 

After eight weeks, I was provided with 267 pages, all completely redacted except for a site map! Even the appraisal was excluded due to privacy.

 

Not a drop of information provided. What are they hiding? Where’s the transparency?

 

I had set out to determine value for taxpayer dollars. I have been shut down. Saanich spent $8 million above the appraised value for these properties and now has to borrow $9.6 million for capital projects or they will raise our taxes by 5.25%!

 

Spending is out of control and out of the public’s scrutiny. It’s no wonder faith in government is so low.

 

Jan Ellison

Saanich

 

 

https://www.timescol...r-grab-10423902

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 25 March 2025 - 06:35 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

A group opposed to the way the District of Saanich is going about borrowing $150 million believes it might be on the verge of defying the odds and raising enough opposition to defeat an alternative approval process.

 

Nancy Di Castri, president of advocacy group Save Our Saanich, said they are quietly confident they will exceed the threshold of 8,735 people needed to defeat the process.

 

Di Castri said the campaign, which held its second public rally Saturday, is going really well and they estimate there have been 4,000 elector response forms already filled out with another 6,000 expected to come through the volunteer network Save Our Saanich has assembled.

 

“And then we’ve got faith in the public. The public isn’t happy about this way of borrowing,” she said. “It’s not a very transparent way. And I just don’t think the public has the appetite for that right now.”

 

The alternative approval process would allow the district to borrow up to $150 million to redevelop its operations centre at McKenzie Avenue and Borden Street.

 

Under the process, which began May 21 and closes June 25, if more than 10 per cent of eligible electors — 8,735 residents — submit an elector response form opposing the initiative, the loan authorization bylaw cannot be adopted.

 

At that point, the district would have two options — put the project on hold or seek permission for the borrowing via referendum.

 

Di Castri said her group does not have an issue with the plan to replace the operations centre as the buildings there are well past their prime. But the process is undemocratic as residents are assumed to be in favour unless they return an elector response form.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-plans-10845972

 

 

 

 

 

 

My problem all along with this is Saanich declaring that everything is at "end of life".  That's simply not possible.

 

 

 

The $172-million operations centre project has been identified as a district priority, as the aging site at McKenzie and Borden has been deemed not fit to handle future growth.

 

About 300 staff based at the operations centre look after transportation, parks, water, sewer and solid waste in Saanich.

 

 

 

There is only marginal growth.  If Saanich has growth, then efficiencies at this centre should match and offset same.  It's not like Saanich is adding parks, major sewers, streets or waterworks.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 June 2025 - 05:32 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Murdock said if the alternative approval process fails, the district will definitely go to a referendum.

 

“There is really no way to not move forward with replacement of these facilities. And I think that we owe it to future generations to take the responsible step of replacing these aging buildings so that the services that are delivered here for (the parks department) and public works can continue,” he said. “It would be irresponsible for us to simply turn our backs on this project because we thought it was inconvenient or too expensive.”

 

 

Maybe the buildings are aging.  But they all can't be broken at the same time.

 

 

Replace or renovate them one at a time, over a period of 10 years.  No borrowing.

 

“It would be irresponsible for us to simply turn our backs on this project because we thought it was inconvenient or too expensive.”

 

 

What is irresponsible is delaying or deferring regular maintenance and replacement, to the point that they think they have to borrow large amounts and now pay interest.  Time to re-figure this one.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 June 2025 - 05:56 AM.

[Blair M.]

Any Saanich resident that regularly takes their yard waste to the Saanich Yard has repeatedly seen with their own eyes that nothing is "at the end of its useful life", rather a few of the buildings are getting old and likely in need of direct replacement. No big deal, and replacing them over time won't cost $150 million.

 

85% (plus) of the Saanich Yard is simply wide open parking lot, and the large central repair facility is just that - a working repair facility, which means a large space with a roof overhead in which mechanics can work on Saanich heavy equipment in relative comfort.

 

I think what this "push" is really all about is the old management offices and support buildings, which are visibly in need of either update or replacement.

Senior bureaucrats don't like working in spaces that they feel are beneath their station.

 

But again, replace the offices for a few million dollars - and get back to work - save Saanich tax dollars for the benefit of Saanich residents, NOT for the benefit of self-important Saanich bureaucrats "all important" self-image.

Edited by Blair M., 22 June 2025 - 06:02 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Seem lots of the works yard is staff and work vehicle parking.   And that can be shifted around a bit to allow a new building here and there, before tearing down an old one.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 June 2025 - 06:05 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Any Saanich resident that regularly takes their yard waste to the Saanich Yard has repeatedly seen with their own eyes that nothing is "at the end of its useful life", rather a few of the buildings are getting old and likely in need of direct replacement. No big deal, and replacing them over time won't cost $150 million.

 

85% (plus) of the Saanich Yard is simply wide open parking lot, and the large central repair facility is just that - a working repair facility, which means a large space with a roof overhead in which mechanics can work on Saanich heavy equipment in relative comfort.

 

I think what this "push" is really all about is the old management offices and support buildings, which are visibly in need of either update or replacement.

Senior bureaucrats don't like working in spaces that they feel are beneath their station.

 

But again, replace the offices for a few million dollars - and get back to work - save Saanich tax dollars for the benefit of Saanich residents, NOT for the benefit of self-important Saanich bureaucrats "all important" self-image.

 

I agree!

[dasmo]

They are replacing things for a few million dollars. It’s just that it’s going to cost $150 million dollars. Like the bus parking lot in View Royal. That cost a few million to build tops, but we paid $85 million.

[Blair M.]

Nothing gives a career bureaucrat more satisfaction than to put on their spotless safety vest, doff their unmarked (new) hard hat, and pull on their unworn steel toed boots with nary a scratch on them - and to take somebody of great importance on a tour of "their" multi-million dollar project, one that will veritably define their bureaucratic career, and forever leave them remembered as the sole saviour of (in this case) the Saanich Public Works Yard.

 

It's nothing but a big ego-show.

 

It would likely be extremely productive to do a deep-dive into where, and with whom (exactly) this idea of a complete Saanich Yard replacement actually originates.

It would then be even more productive to have this person publicly explain in extreme detail "why" the project, and the $150 million is of such importance that the fundamentally undemocratic AAP should proceed at all.

I suspect the answer would be less than satisfactory, based on the severe lack of transparency to date.

 

A thinking man or woman might then wind up by asking out loud "where are the third party studies that support this plan?"

​It would come as no surprise when the answer to that question was simply "there aren't any third party studies that support this plan".

[Mike K.]

Sooke got its hand slapped a few years ago when the municipality tried to allocate parkland for the use of the Lions charitable organization to build a modern facility. Residents collected enough signatures to reach just below the threshold of 10%, but the message was clear, and the mayor, who supported the project, backed down.

No referendum was ever held.

[Victoria Watcher]

A large part of that compound seems to have soil and gravel stations. That’s to be moved anyway.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 June 2025 - 07:53 AM.

[lanforod]

I filled out the form and emailed it off a week ago. 

 

Oak Bay got some land from UVic for a bunch of yard material storage and what not. There isn't a shortage of land if Saanich needs to find temporary space for soils and aggregate while they do some build in place replacements of those older buildings. At the same time, I'm wondering about Saanich's work from home policy and situation. WFH has freed up a lot of office space, and you'd think the municipality should have available office space, why can't some of those folks move to city hall or something instead? Anyone WFH more than 40% should share office space and not get a dedicated desk, IMO.

[Victoria Watcher]

Di Castri said the campaign, which held its second public rally Saturday, is going really well and they estimate there have been 4,000 elector response forms already filled out with another 6,000 expected to come through the volunteer network Save Our Saanich has assembled.

 

“And then we’ve got faith in the public. The public isn’t happy about this way of borrowing,” she said. “It’s not a very transparent way. And I just don’t think the public has the appetite for that right now.”

 

The alternative approval process would allow the district to borrow up to $150 million to redevelop its operations centre at McKenzie Avenue and Borden Street.

 

Under the process, which began May 21 and closes June 25, if more than 10 per cent of eligible electors — 8,735 residents — submit an elector response form opposing the initiative, the loan authorization bylaw cannot be adopted.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-plans-10845972

 

 

 

2 days left, it'll be interesting to see.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 June 2025 - 04:07 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

In a previous interview with Saanich News, Mayor Dean Murdock emphasized that the AAP route was necessary, as the district “no longer has the luxury of more time” to replace its parks and public works facilities.

 

“A referendum… would mean a delay in advancing the project,” said Murdock. “Given the current inflationary environment when it comes to construction costs, that's likely to add many millions to the costs of the project… and just further kick the can down the road.

 

 

https://www.sookenew...streets-8082536

 

 

 

I absolutely hate that kind of reasoning.  If that kind of reasoning was sound, why doesn't Saanich just borrow $3 billion and do all the work all over the municipality they expect to do in the next 25 years, now?   BIG savings, right?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 June 2025 - 04:11 AM.