46 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

^ I agree! But this city council might say those 50 year old buildings are earning just fine for the proponent now.

[Sparky]

^ Why should the city have a say in it? It's already zoned for multi family...no?

[Mike K.]

Yes, but the owner might say due to the province capping rent increases to well below inflation even, the budget for major repairs and maintenance may be evaporating.

[Sparky]

^ Exactly.

[Sparky]

The wrecking ball is coming to make way for the migrants/immigrants. No?

 

Renting to existing tenants is a loosing proposition. 

[Victoria Watcher]

^ Why should the city have a say in it? It's already zoned for multi family...no?

It likely is. But I presume they are asking for density higher than the current zoning.

It’s going to the City for something.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 03 November 2022 - 05:02 PM.

[amor de cosmos]

that public dock (& harbour-ferry stop?) & waterfront boardwalk sounds like a great idea. it would open up a part of city that nobody ever notices (not me anyway). i don't know why they can't get started on that part of it today though? is the plan to extend it to the park at tillicum then?

[Victoria Watcher]

that public dock (& harbour-ferry stop?) & waterfront boardwalk sounds like a great idea. it would open up a part of city that nobody ever notices (not me anyway). i don't know why they can't get started on that part of it today though? is the plan to extend it to the park at tillicum then?

 

Presumably, that's the "amenity package" the City will extort ask for.  No point giving it to them before you get your variances/rezoning.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 November 2022 - 08:44 AM.

[Mike K.]

Yes. The plan is to run the boardwalk to the bridge in Saanich, but that’ll be a generational thing, I’m sure.

[aastra]

I really hope they aren't planning to make all five buildings look exactly the same.

[amor de cosmos]

i can see that stretch becoming like the westsong walkway along the songhees to west bay marina. it's a pretty nice walk & seems to work well:

 

 

I don't think it's very hard to imagine a "subway map" of the stops you'd see along there, like johnson st, the marina, spinnakers, vic west streets etc. i guess it's good that esquimalt road & its bus routes aren't too far away so if they did something similar on that section of the gorge you'd want to easily access gorge rd from the waterfront. the city already has that arbutus park so they could have a bridge built across that inlet to connect directly to the boardwalk to the south. they could do that today. once this dock thing is done I don't think it would be that hard to connect it with arbutus park. the tricky bit would probably be the neighbours on lotus st but i'm sure something could be worked out. they could have signs saying "entering private property please stay on boardwalk" & if all else fails the path could go through the edge of the hospital grounds to lotus, to harriet & back to the waterfront. it might not be as hard as it looks. it would be a phenomenal improvement to that area if they could do it. (& saanich too on their end)

 

 

[Seechelle1969]

There are a lot of long term tenants in these buildings (my neighborhood so have heard a lot about it) who are paying very low rent. There is one tenant who has been there for 25 years and pays $600. Many have been there for 10+. I highly doubt they would get a deal of same rent. I am hearing from tenants the offer is 20% below market which is actually a significant increase for many of them.

I suspect that City Council will reject this unless the 200 displaced households get to come back at the same rent they pay now, and they can stay as the project is phased. Which will make the project unfeasible for the proponent. Then they will suddenly discover the buildings are not at end-of-life.

[fitzsystar]

the city already has that arbutus park so they could have a bridge built across that inlet to connect directly to the boardwalk to the south. they could do that today. once this dock thing is done I don't think it would be that hard to connect it with arbutus park.

 

I agree that the potential for a waterfront pathway is really exciting here (I live just on the other side of Gorge from this proposal). However, I believe the limiting factor against putting a pedestrian bridge here is that it's a migratory bird sanctuary in the mud flats, and a bridge across the flats would restrict bird movements. Especially relative to other areas of "bird sanctuary" in Victoria (e.g. east coast beaches), this area actually sees a high population of birds moving through. 

 

https://www.crd.bc.c...r.pdf?sfvrsn=2 

 

I'm no biologist so have no idea if a pedestrian bridge could be compatible with the migratory birds. If so, that would sure be amazing. 

[amor de cosmos]

that's good to know; i suppose a compromise would be a waterfront boardwalk from the end of washington ave, or along the northern shore to connect with the existing trail father along, closer to the gorge rd underpass. i wouldn't know whether it's the number of piers or simply having anything overhead that would affect the birds that use the mudflat there. i think a single span would be ~100m which might be a stretch.

[Dudeland]

Very cool concept. Adds rational density and enhances access to the Gorge. A boardwalk from Arbutus Park to Tillicum makes total sense and if constructed along the waterway, can do so without crossing private property. Granted, it will run beside private property but the shoreline is not privately owned.

The issue of protecting low rents in old buildings is not necessarily protecting low income families and individuals but in those cases where it does, the Province needs to support development transitions that increase overall density where it makes sense to do so such as, near transit arteries, close to employment hubs, and where City planning has established high density corridors like the Gorge Road corridor. Definitely a thumbs up on this project.

[fitzsystar]

Directly related to our discussion above about getting a boardwalk along with this potential development; there's talks starting about the city investing in Arbutus Park this year. it's directly to the east of this proposal. I wrote into the working group, currently headed by the burnside gorge land use committee, to ask for a boardwalk that would potentially connect to this new development to the west (if it goes through) and connect to the Goose / Selkirk development to the east. Early days yet, but I thought it was interesting to see this proposal at the same time as Arbutus Park proposals. https://www.capitald...ark-investment 

[Mike K.]

This is going before council on Thursday.

 

Staff are recommending council waive the public hearing.

[Victoria Watcher]

This was approved last night.

[Nparker]

Stephen Andrew has voiced some concerns about this project.
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My thoughts on 133 Gorge Road East. 

 

As city council moves this project forward, I am compelled to comment on the development and underlying impact of redevelopment. Before I begin, I acknowledge I don’t know what the ultimate solution is to this kind of development, but it’s not what is being proposed. 

 

I first became aware of this project when several residents of 133 Gorge Road reached out to me as a city councillor with concerns they were headed for eviction from their homes. There was - and is - tremendous concern they would have a hard time finding comparable housing at a similar rent. 

 

To listen to their concerns, I organized a community meeting.  It was enlightened and I left with a feeling of panic and despair. I was particularly not impressed with the developer or agent’s tone in my pre-meeting conversations. It came across arrogant, condescending and entitled. I thought at the time “if THIS is how they are speaking to a councillor, what is their attitude to their residents?”

 

At the time of the meeting, this was advanced as “a proposal” and there were assurances everything would work out. The developer pointed to the engagement of a “relocation expert”. That alone appears to be all the developer and council are worried about.

I wish council had the time to sit down and hear from all current tenants. They’d find out that the suites are all rented as “furnished”, many of the tenants have a tough time to  make ends meet, and many have lived in their homes for decades.  

 

Council - and governments as a whole - spend a lot of time protecting “affordable rents” and introducing new homes that are financially achievable. 

 

What I see such as the project at 133 Gorge Road, is we take a step backwards on affordable housing stock. We do the work to establish new affordable homes only to have them filled by developers looking to redevelop existing homes. 

 

The current plan isn’t working. 

 

We need a more comprehensive plan to balance the needs of the community for greater density while offering protection for those who are displaced. This doesn’t mean “no development”.  It means development with social responsibility. That may include, as one idea, property tax holidays to aid in replenishment of affordable housing WITH market housing. 

 

As I said at the start of this, I don’t have all the answers.  I am truly interested in any reasonable solution you can offer. 

 

Stephen

https://www.facebook...ephenAndrewNews

[Mike K.]

I’ve never yet met a relocation expert. Who is this person in Victoria?