5673 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

^ Yeah but now they own fee simply property in Rock Bay which I assume they will need to pay taxes on but will not have any income from allowing the site to be used for staging.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ Yeah but now they own fee simply property in Rock Bay which I assume they will need to pay taxes on but will not have any income from allowing the site to be used for staging.

 

Article says CRD will lease that land.  Pay the bands.  Esquimalt and Songhees bands also get liason positions created for some of their members, paid for by CRD.

[spanky123]

Article says CRD will lease that land.  Pay the bands.  Esquimalt and Songhees bands also get liason positions created for some of their members, paid for by CRD.

 

So they will lease the land and then not use it?!

[VicHockeyFan]

So they will lease the land and then not use it?!

 

The article says the CRD will lease the land for a staging area.  Not sure how they will use it, since barging is gone.  Maybe steel equipment or rebar etc. will be stored there before it's moved to the plant site etc.

[spanky123]

The article says the CRD will lease the land for a staging area.  Not sure how they will use it, since barging is gone.  Maybe steel equipment or rebar etc. will be stored there before it's moved to the plant site etc.

 

Ok thanks

[lanforod]

Fee simple? So the natives could sell it or develop it and sell condos (not 99 year leasehold) once the CRD lease is done, assuming it is leased?

[JohnN]

6. First Nations Support Agreements

The Core Area spans the traditional territory of the Lekwungen peoples, known today as Esquimalt Nation and Songhees Nation. As part of the Project and in recognition of the Crown's obligation to consult with the Esquimalt and Songhees Nations and the contribution of the Nations, including to the planning of the wastewater system, the CRD has entered into Support Agreements with the Esquimalt and Songhees Nations. All costs associated with the Support Agreements are included in the Control Budget for the Project.

Key terms of the agreements are:

- The CRD will lease Rock Bay from Matullia Holdings Limited Partnership, a partnership of the Esquimalt Nation and Songhees Nation, for use as a laydown area for four years.

- The CRD will create an Esquimalt Nation liaison position and a Songhees Nation liaison position for the four year term of the Project. The liaisons will assist the CRD and the contractors to ensure that the Nations continue to be informed and engaged during the Project and will provide support and guidance to the CRD and members of the Project Team with respect to cultural protocols between CRD and the Nations, including protocols that may apply in the event of the discovery of ancestral remains during construction.

- The CRD will contribute $480,000 to Xhamasung Holdings LLP, a corporation jointly owned by the Esquimalt Nation and Songhees Nation, for the upgrading and development of Westbay Village Marina and R.V. park.

- The CRD will cause its contractors to make meaningful efforts to train and employ members of both Nations during construction.

- The CRD will contribute to the legal, professional and administrative costs incurred by the Nations in respect of the Project and the Support Agreements.

- The CRD will make contributions to each Nation for improvements to their reserves and for the reinterment of
Aboriginal ancestors whose remains may be disturbed as a result of the construction of the Project.
 

As part of the agreements, the Nations have each provided letters of support for the Project,
agreed to work closely with the liaisons to foster ongoing engagement during construction and agreed to support a process for the reinterment of Aboriginal ancestors. Reaching an understanding in advance of construction will hopefully go some way to minimize the emotional upheaval in the event of the discovery of ancestral remains and as well, mitigate the risk of potential delays in construction. (pp 5-6)

https://crd.ca.legis...7F-A9D120C3673E

 

[JohnN]

Today's 2-hour CRD sewage committee meeting video now uploaded for viewing. To jump to specific agenda items, click on link below the video screen.  https://www.crd.bc.c...es/live-webcast

[JohnN]

Excerpts:

He [Atwell] wondered about the CRD’s “apparent rush” to sign the provincial funding agreement when the method and costs for processing sewage sludge at the Hartland landfill have not been determined.

Atwell said that with a provincial election approaching, the CRD shouldn’t limit itself to capped funding from the province — especially as it hasn’t been determined how much residuals processing will cost.

“I think the prescient issue is the fact that we have an undefined portion of the [sewage treatment] project and a funding limit — and we don’t know how we’re going to pay for that,” Atwell said.

“We should have at least a memorandum of understanding or some kind of certainty around it before we enter into this agreement,” he said.

 

http://www.timescolo...lant-1.11426182

[JohnN]

Letter praising CRD sewage plant "leadership" from businessman Gerald Hartwig and couple of his fact-free paid adverts below. 

 

Letters@timescolonist.com

 

Excerpt:

Great leadership and hard work pay off. We finally get scientifically proven, desperately needed sewage treatment. As chair of the Capital Regional District sewage committee, Mayor Lisa Helps managed to stick to the facts.

 

http://www.timescolo...ship-1.11521657

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[JohnN]

Excerpt:

 

The “support agreements” negotiated with each nation provide for everything from paid liaison positions and guarantees of employment for band members to costs of re-interment of any ancestral remains discovered during construction. They also include money to operate a food truck and provide culinary arts training, and cash to supply water and sewage services to reserve housing.

...The largest payment is for Rock Bay land controlled by the two First Nations. The CRD will spend $600,000 annually for four years to lease the land, which will be used as a preparation area for the sewage project.

 

Esquimalt, Songhees First Nations to reap millions for backing CRD sewage plan

http://www.timescolo...plan-1.12387768

[VicHockeyFan]

Good deal for them, for sure.  Bringing former Harbour Authority CEO Curtis Grad into their organization is paying off.

 

I see their building, the former PCC office on Pandora is still for lease.

[JohnN]

Something seems a bit odd about concluding quote from Desjardin, implys that the tax/fee load on sewage plant clients will pay less in future because of what they've paid to date. However, what they've paid to date is probably a very small fraction of total cost.

Excerpt:

Desjardins noted the board has been incrementally raising the tax levy specifically for sewage to reduce overall costs and provide sufficient funding for capital and operational spending.

 

Spending jumps at Capital Regional District, driven by sewage mega-project

http://www.timescolo...ject-1.12631022

[JohnN]

Letters in TC:

- Payments to First Nations are the right thing to do: http://www.timescolo...o-do-1.12656421

- Sewage agreements an innovative approach:

http://www.timescolo...oach-1.12656434

[JohnN]

Duston Benton of Green Alliance, excerpt:
The oceans can tell us what’s wrong, but the solutions need to start somewhere else, so that we stop plastics from entering the marine environment in the first place. We need to radically change the way we design plastics, not the way we dispose of them.
,,,Whilst plastics are important materials, we need to stop designing products that are both materially inefficient and harmful to the environment.

 

Cleaning up the oceans is no solution to our plastic problem: 

https://www.euractiv...lastic-problem/

[JohnN]

Excerpts:

We knew it was coming, but it was still a shock. The capital budget for the Capital Regional District is going up 50 per cent, largely because of the sewage project. ...Taxpayers in the core area will face big numbers as construction on the $765-million plan ramps up.

...“Most of what is driving things this year is, of course, the core area [sewage] project,” said CRD chair Barb Desjardins.

...Desjardins said the board has been raising the tax levy incrementally for sewage to reduce overall costs and make sure there is enough money for capital and operational spending. That might ease the pain, but it is not the same as reducing unnecessary spending. Taxpayers don’t need any more shocks.

 

Editorial: Keep an eye on CRD budget:

http://www.timescolo...dget-1.12858890

 

 

 

Edited by JohnN, 26 March 2017 - 05:08 AM.

[Sparky]

^

Desjardins said the board has been raising the tax levy incrementally for sewage to reduce overall costs and make sure there is enough money for capital and operational spending.

 

Does this statement confuse anyone else besides me? Can anyone tell me what it means?

[JohnN]

^

 

Does this statement confuse anyone else besides me? Can anyone tell me what it means?

 

It is confusing and while I'm not sure what Desjardins means, I think it might be the sewage+sludge plant payment escalator tax introduced in 2013 (see image of table below), when municipalities introduced a charge against future treatment plant costs in order to avoid politically-unpalatable "sticker shock".

 

As well, the funding need to initiate the construction could be drawn from the accumulated pot of money on hand.

 

Anyway, thats my guess. 

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Edited by JohnN, 26 March 2017 - 09:34 AM.

[Sparky]

Thanks John. In my mind however "raising the tax levy incrementally" does not "reduce overall costs". It merely pays for a portion of the project IN ADVANCE.

[JohnN]

Notice of meeting: 
Wastewater Project beyond McLoughlin Point
Real Information and an Alternative
7:00 PM,March 30th, Coast Victoria Hotel,146 Kingston St
Image of notice details below.

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