26028 replies to this topic

[A Girl is No one]

Speaking of epidemic... This one kills lots more people, and the governments don't seem to mind.

"More than 5,000 Quebecers died from smoking-related illnesses in 2016 and 6,500 will succumb to the same fate this year, according ot the Quebec Council on Tobacco and Health."

http://montreal.ctvn...-2017-1.3242140

So, 5,000 people died in 2016, in Quebec alone, due to smoking. The national rate is obviously much higher. And it's a lot higher than the number of people dying of overdoses, even in the banner year of 2016. Yet, I don't see governments bending over backwards offering smokers with special rooms designed to clean the air from toxic fumes and get sympathy and understanding from paid staff. I don't see them providing free housing and everything else so smokers can afford to continue smoking. What I do see however, is government providing smoking cessation support and making sure that smokers do not harm other people around them (via second hand smoke). And it has been working very well.

it has been proven that it's harder to quit smoking than to quit doing drugs. So why do we not ask of drug addicts to try and quit? Why do we enable them instead? Vancouver has 13 years of experience doing just that, and the situation keeps getting worse. Why can't we learn from that mistake and correct course?

Drug addicts also have access to government sponsored drug rehab and drug cessation help (methadone & others). Now they have a government that is saying "it's ok, continue doing illegal drugs, we'll help you, and you'll get free coffee, cookies and sympathy everytime you come and shoot up with us". That's called reinforcement. Imagine if we had done this with smokers. I doubt the rates would ever have dropped the way they did.

[VicHockeyFan]

I truly think that one of the problems is that the academics such at those that signed the letter in support of tent city, or the medical professionals that cry for more treatment/services, or management at Cool aid or Our Place live nowhere near the epicentre of the problems.  Their son or daughter is unlikely to be at McDonald's Douglas at 12:40am to get stabbed.  And they do not live, shop, recreate or try to run a private business in the DTES or the 900-blk. Pandora.

 

Consider a place like UVic.  I suspect that hundreds of students there do illicit drugs.  But I'm sure they have no open dealing on campus.

[J Billings]

Talk about Fake News...

 

The Adrian Chamberlain Ian Wicks story from 6 days ago has been cleansed from the TC website and social media channels.  Gone.  

 

screenshot-webcache.googleusercontent.com 2017-01-13 19-56-39.png

 

It lives on, on the OP website.

 

https://www.ourplace...less-first-time

So, if the story was fake, will they be printing a retraction/clarification for the sake of anyone currently thinking of donating as a result of that story?

Will they refund donations already received as a result of the story?

[A Girl is No one]

^^^and why does Our Place still feature that story on their webpage? They are like!y collecting donations based on that story too. More fraud. The whole poverty pimp industry is built on lies.

Edited by A Girl is No one, 16 January 2017 - 04:58 PM.

[A Girl is No one]

Oh for crying out loud: on CHEK news today, in response to the crime and drug dealing that just escalated dramatically around the central care home facility since it became a low barrier supportive housing facility, Charlayne Thornton Joe says that police presence won't solve the issue. What will solve the problem is MORE supportive housing!!!!! These people were provided supportive housing and that is what they do to their new neighborhood. How is providing MORE supportive housing going to help? What the heck is in the water at city hall???? Sometimes I'd swear they are getting kickbacks from the poverty pimps.


http://www.cheknews....pandora-257754/

[Nparker]

...Charlayne Thornton Joe says...What will solve the problem is MORE supportive housing...

I nearly spit out my dinner when I heard that on the news tonight. I wanted to say "look lady, supplying housing has NOT solved the addicts drug problems". There are only two ways addicts stop being addicted: rehab or death.

[mbjj]

I heard that too and swore at the tv.

[LJ]

I think we should split this thread into two. Homeless and Drug Addicts. We conflate the two when we shouldn't. I have a lot of sympathy for people who through circumstance are going to work everyday but just can't make ends meet. I want to help them get ahead and succeed.

 

I have no sympathy for a drug addict who chooses to continue using drugs rather than getting into rehab, has no interest in working or looking after housing provided to him/her, and commits crimes to continue that lifestyle.

 

I am not against nor do I hate homeless people, quite the opposite.

[VicHockeyFan]

I think we should split this thread into two. Homeless and Drug Addicts. We conflate the two when we shouldn't. 

 

I don't think we are going to start another thread.  This one is about homeless issues.  Most of them are drug/alcohol addicts.  The guy that died at Gorge Park or the guy at Saanich/McKenzie are rare homeless guys.

 

A drug addict thread is sort of out there.  You could start one in General Discussion, but we do not want it to to overlap.  Someone already pulled up the drug dealing spots thread so now we have it this one and the crime one all talking about the same stuff concurrently.

[VicHockeyFan]

I have no sympathy for a drug addict who chooses to continue using drugs rather than getting into rehab, has no interest in working or looking after housing provided to him/her, and commits crimes to continue that lifestyle.

 

I am not against nor do I hate homeless people, quite the opposite.

 

Look, none of use hate homeless people.  But I have come to understand lately that very very very few people are homeless because they "got laid off" or "had an unexpected bill".  Most good, caring people have friend and family or workplace/employer and even landlord support networks.  If you have had the same landlord for 4 years and you used to pay your rent on time and be a model tenant, they are unlikely to kick you out even if you are 60 or 90 days late.

[LJ]

^Yeah, I know, too many threads overlapping. Well I guess that we could move the drug dealing/addict part to the Crime thread, as technically, despite what Helps might have us believe, it is still a crime to sell or possess illegal drugs.

[A Girl is No one]

^^The type of homeless you describe does not fit the model of supportive housing. They only need financial help such as rent subsidies, and I'm sure that no one objects to helping them. But that is not a good business model for the poverty industry since they don't need to be involved. Our city council only cares about supportive housing, that is housing strictly for the drug addicts and mentally ill that are known to have anti social behavior and cannot live on their own.

No effort or money is ever put towards those that are trying to help themselves. In fact, if I remember correctly, most of the $60M the CRD is borrowing will go towards low barrier supportive housing. At least that is what the mayor said in the news when they announced it.

To be fair, it could simply be that the poverty pimps advocate for their clients (ie drug addicts/mentally ill with erratic violent behavior) and no one advocates for the working poor who only need a bit of financial support. Our city council is not too bright and so get manipulated by the poverty pimps in throwing away all this taxpayer money at enabling drug addicts who in turn destroy every pkace they go with their anti social behaviour. Just a theory.

[A Girl is No one]

^Yeah, I know, too many threads overlapping. Well I guess that we could move the drug dealing/addict part to the Crime thread, as technically, despite what Helps might have us believe, it is still a crime to sell or possess illegal drugs.

I'm with VHF on that. The "homeless" you describe are very rare and not at all the reality of homelessness. Instead, it's a romantic notion brandied about by bthe poverty pimps tonget an unsuspecting public to buy into their operations. That is why they have to use made up stories that fit this scenario like the one we saw inthe TC and Our Place web site in early January. That's also why every housing facility is low barrier. Homeless people would not go to housing (as they refuse to go to shelters) that do not allow full use of drugs.

[http]

Look, none of use hate homeless people.  But I have come to understand lately that very very very few people are homeless because they "got laid off" or "had an unexpected bill".  Most good, caring people have friend and family or workplace/employer and even landlord support networks.  If you have had the same landlord for 4 years and you used to pay your rent on time and be a model tenant, they are unlikely to kick you out even if you are 60 or 90 days late.

 

If you're 60 days late on the rent and laid off, it will take something other than a good landlord/tenant relationship to keep the roof over your head, because a sensible and prudent landlord shall have posted an eviction notice.

 

Please, how has your understanding come about lately? Do people become homeless because they got hired and kept their expenses in check?

[VicHockeyFan]

Please, how has your understanding come about lately? Do people become homeless because they got hired and kept their expenses in check?

 

I'm glad you asked.  I have breakfast about 3 days per week with a couple homeless people (one is 70 years old), several on different forms of disability, and 2 in low-barrier housing.  One that is on methadone replacement.  I invite you to join us, McDonald's downtown around 6:30am, let me know what day you can make it, we are all at the large high table.  

 

I have friends that work at both Cool Aid and Portland Hotel Soc. (844).

 

And I have beers with a friend that lives at 834 Johnson, almost every week.

 

For 8 or so years I ran one of the lowest-end bars downtown (the lowest after the Douglas closed).

 

I might be closer to what's going on on the street than any of you.  Certainly than any City councillor.

[Greg]

If you're 60 days late on the rent and laid off, it will take something other than a good landlord/tenant relationship to keep the roof over your head, because a sensible and prudent landlord shall have posted an eviction notice.

 

Please, how has your understanding come about lately? Do people become homeless because they got hired and kept their expenses in check?

 

While not universally true, I think the situation you describe above can often be mitigated by family and friends. The difference between that situation and the addict's situation, is that eventually an addict has burned all of their bridges and no longer have anyone left they can turn to for help.

 

When it can't be solved by friends and family, it can be resolved by throwing money at it. That also isn't true with addiction.

 

In any case, I think it is a critical error to lump homelessness from cash shortage and homelessness from mental illness and addiction into the same bucket. They have different root causes, so they require different responses. Pretending that addicts are on the street because of wealth inequality or unbridled capitalism or lack of affordable housing clouds the issue so badly that no useful discussion can take place. I'd really like to see the City begin to make that distinction as part of their approach.

[Karma2017]

I think we should split this thread into two. Homeless and Drug Addicts. We conflate the two when we shouldn't. I have a lot of sympathy for people who through circumstance are going to work everyday but just can't make ends meet. I want to help them get ahead and succeed.

 

I have no sympathy for a drug addict who chooses to continue using drugs rather than getting into rehab, has no interest in working or looking after housing provided to him/her, and commits crimes to continue that lifestyle.

 

I am not against nor do I hate homeless people, quite the opposite.

I agree, more that the homeless or people with challenges are in two groups, those that want to help themselves and true victims of circumstances, and those that dont care make no effort and victimize others circumstances.... help should be based on those who HELP THEMSELVES and the EFFORT they make...this is actually how the sobering center works...who gets first priority?  Those who want the help, not those who want to play the system to enable their addictions...though some workers are not as "discerning" as others...

[VicHockeyFan]

In any case, I think it is a critical error to lump homelessness from cash shortage and homelessness from mental illness and addiction into the same bucket. 

 

I'm willing to declare today that there is no homelessness in this city from a simple cash shortage, unless it's compounded by a mental illness or addiction.  Or in the odd case, really bad planning (moving here with limited resources and no job prospect, you see them with travel packs).  In that case it's usually the very young and resilient.  They usually find their way.

 

The 70-year-old homeless man I mentioned above that I have breakfast with, he chooses alcohol over finding permanent accommodations, because he gets a fairly decent pension and could rent an apartment.  For now, he seems comfortable with that choice though.

[Mike K.]

But that's exactly the scenario the Times Colonist depicted when they ran that terrible piece on Wicks, which they've since pulled from their website after the family of the man went public and said the article was complete BS.

So the poverty industry is trying very hard to paint the picture that down on your luck and a shortage of cash is the dominant reason for homelessness. Addiction, if and when mentioned, is downplayed.

[A Girl is No one]

Which explains why the TC had to use a fake story to show the "from perfectly fine to sleeping in the street for two nights because of badluck, it could be you" homeless.